Record Console warm up period

[yngwiej]

Hello,
I've been having issues with my 60's Zenith console. Well, I think it's issues, but maybe it's not.
I did a real good motor and idler cleaning using sewing oil and alcohol on the wheel. I was really proud of myself for that but, other than being a bit quieter, I really have seen no change in speed.
It usually takes about a good 15 minutes to get it to proper rpm speed after startup. It starts at 31 and eventually will top out at 33.3. (I had to adjust the idler wheel so it would reach that)
It won't go any higher after 15 and everything works fine.
My question is, Is this normal? Could it be it just needs time to warm up?

Happy to answer any questions and thanks in advance
-Jeff

[paulsherwin]

What record deck is your console fitted with?

This is a primarily British forum, and expertise and experience with American consoles will be very limited. You may find more help if you ask on one of the big US forums.

[yngwiej]

Oh, thanks. I thought it would be a vague question that might very well apply to all turntables of this era. I think its a Voice of Music deck

[Nuvistor]

I found this web store, they may have advice as well as the parts to fix it.
https://www.thevoiceofmusic.com

I know nothing about them but perhaps worth asking them.

[yngwiej]

Funny, they ARE the source of everything but more for replacement parts. Yes, I did ask them but they're more of a parts store than anything else and they didn't provide much help. I did get a few things from them though

[Nuvistor]

Are the motor windings powered directly from the 110v 60hz supply or are there other components in the motor circuit. Presume the motor spindle, turntable bearing and idler wheel are free running.
All guess work without knowing the machine.

[yngwiej]

Not sure the answers to any of that Frank without looking at it. Would you say that some require a warmup?

[RojDW48]

I have an old HMV player which takes about 5 mins to get up to speed. I know it's old grease in the motor which softens as the valve amp warms it all up (I have cleaned up the rest of the mechanism). No doubt one day I'll get around to stripping it down - and I'm reminded of that every time I come to use it but......it's a couple of hours work to do that....and it only takes 5 minutes. Lazy? I know.

[John10b]

I have never know a record deck, in normal working condition, to take 15 minuets to get up to speed, but I could be wrong!
Cheers
John

[Nuvistor]

Has RojDW48 noted, hardened grease can cause this, that’s why I asked are all the bearings running free.
Hardened rubber on the idler wheel can cause slippage and perhaps softens enough when warm to grip properly.
Lots of possibilities and has Paul said in post 2 not a lot of experience in the U.K. for those decks.

[yngwiej]

RojDW48, I understand completely! lol, yes sometimes its just easier to let it warm up then enjoy. I think I've done as much cleaning as I can do to it from here on out. Bearings seem to be running free, the wheel has been sent in and rufurbed so that should be good too. I read somewhere that it is normal for them to be off by a few RPM's at startup. That may very well be where I'm at.

BTW, I'm getting more responses from you all then any of the U.S. sites so, Thanks

[Nuvistor]

If you have the patience you could look through the Rider and PF information on American radio history. There is lots service information for record changers, you may get lucky and find one for the VOM. You may be able to make the search more relevant than I did.

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/...t=0&zoom_xml=0

http://www.americanradiohistory.com

If nothing else, if you like old technical magazines you will lose track of time reading the vast quantities of information.

[Hartley118]

Originally Posted by John10b

I have never know a record deck, in normal working condition, to take 15 minuets to get up to speed, but I could be wrong!

My Collaro 4T200 transcription unit can take 15 minutes to get up to speed in the winter. It lives in an unheated workshop and the drive motor needs to warm up. I'm sure that the bearings suffer from old sticky oil. I've relubricated with clock oil, which improved things a bit, but I know that the real cure will be to strip down the motor and clean and relubricate those bearings.

Must get round to it one day!

Martin

[yngwiej]

Found out what I think might be the issue. The idler wheel mount was loose and unstable. Not sure why but I'm sure it needs to be somewhat stiff. The problem is where the adjustment screw meets the mount. This isn't my turntable, but I found this pic that will show the area of concern.(see attached) There's a lot of space between the washer and the mount which is causing the idler wheel to be a little floppy. I may need to search for a thicker washer of sorts so its more secure. Any suggestions?

[Nuvistor]

No suggestions for a washer but are the motor mounting grommets in good condition, appreciate that the photo is not your unit?

I wouldn’t use the term stiff for the bearing on the idler wheel, free running but without major wobble.

[yngwiej]

Agreed, I'm sorry, I'm not in front of my turntable right now, I won't be back to it till the weekend. You're right, not stiff, but stable. The washer that was on it, wasn't doing the job.

[yngwiej]

Something tells me the adjustment screw isn't quite right. I can make adjustments to the RPM from turning it myself, no screwdriver needed. that shouldn't be that way. May explain my speed issues

[yngwiej]

Here's a few pics of my issue. As you can see in the last few pics, the arm isn't stable. Need something in there to keep it level.