UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > Cabinet and Chassis Restoration and Refinishing

Notices

Cabinet and Chassis Restoration and Refinishing For help with cabinet or chassis restoration (non-electrical), please leave a message here.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 21st Jul 2007, 6:28 pm   #1
RoundyMooney
Tetrode
 
RoundyMooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 56
Default Rewiring old equipment.

What are your thoughts when it comes to rewiring old equipment?

What I'm getting at, where the set justifies the effort, do you honour colour coding, do it all in the one colour, or attempt to emulate the original build?

Also, when it comes to multi-coloured wiring, does anyone know of a better source than paying big bucks for multiple reels?

Thanks in advance.

Ryan.
__________________
Putting the smoke back into antiquated junk since 1977

Last edited by Darren-UK; 1st Aug 2007 at 11:58 am. Reason: Title made more meaningful.
RoundyMooney is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2007, 7:09 pm   #2
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 21,192
Default Rewiring old equipment.

That's a matter of personal choice. What one restorer does another will frown upon.

No matter what I'm restoring I always use PVC covered wire even though the original may have been rubber or cotton covered. I have PVC wire and sleeving in various colours and will try to follow the original colours where possible. However if I haven't got the right colour I'll substitute anything.

My general attitude i that if it's below the chassis the appearance doesn't matter as long as it's neat and tidy. Above the chassis I like to retain the original appearance.

If it's a pre WW2 set I might resort to restuffing cardboard and can capacitor cases. Waxies I just change for yellow polypropylene types.

This is purely my way of doing things. As I said others will have different ideas.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.
Station X is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2007, 7:49 pm   #3
XTC
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 837
Default Rewiring old equipment.

It all depends.

One problem is that if you're replacing rubber covered wiring, the insulation of newer wire is thinner for the same voltage rating. I believe there are grades of wire intended for special applications which have thicker insulation and look more like the original, but they are fairly dear. Then there's the nice cotten covered wire, found in sets like the BC348, which doesn't normally need replacing, but I can't think of any reasonable replacement, if it did.

In a complex set, or test equipment, the wiring scheme would have been chosen to make factory wiring and servicing easier. If it was rubber covered in the first place, you might have a job to guess what the original colour was.

I've found packs of solid core wire in different colours at rallies for two or three quid, to be handy. Also you find reels and part reels for not much. You can buy it from RS and the usual places, but as you say, it seems a lot to pay for a collection of reels of wire, where you often can't find the right colour anyway. Then there's the question of stranded or solid.

Something I've found useful is solid core wire - must have been low voltage - chucked out when telephone equipment was being rewired. Also the cables chucked in the skip when computer sites were being rewired, which had about 20 separate twited pairs, in all sorts of colours.


In domestic sets, very often it wasn't insulated wire as such, it was bits of sleeve fitted over tinned copper.


There's no easy answer to this one, but wire's one of those things worth keeping the antenna twitching for.



Pete.
XTC is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2007, 9:21 pm   #4
RoundyMooney
Tetrode
 
RoundyMooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 56
Default Rewiring old equipment.

Good stuff gents.

My initial project has cloth over rubber insulation, which isn't in bad shape. Maybe I'd be better to leave it be for the sake of originality?

Poor quality photos (taken with a USB stick cam in a hurry are here and here.)
__________________
Putting the smoke back into antiquated junk since 1977
RoundyMooney is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2007, 9:59 pm   #5
XTC
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 837
Default Rewiring old equipment.

One possibility is to unsolder wires which carry high voltage, and therefore risk of shock or damage, and push a piece of fibreglass sleeve over them, then resolder them. You can always rewire later when you come by a decent replacement

The trouble with rubber covered wiring is that after 50 years or more the insulation can drop off if you look at it. As well as being dangerous, it can cause obscure or expensive faults. If it's that bad, sleeving isn't a solution.

Authenticity is a goal worth aiming for, but it's better to be satisfied that what you are doing isn't dangerous.

From the photos, that bit of tape looks naff; I think I'd use two bits of heatshrink, or sleeving and heatshrink misself, and anchor the cap with a cable tie or similar.

Pete.
XTC is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2007, 10:28 pm   #6
Sideband
Dekatron
 
Sideband's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 7,549
Default Rewiring old equipment.

For what it's worth, here are my efforts on a Marconiphone radio 557 that I am restoring for another collector. I've rewired the mains transformer using modern PVC wire but I've slipped the original cloth covering from the old rubber covered wire over it to maintain appearances above decks. Underneath, I've shown the new wire with the old cloth cover, waiting to be trimmed and soldered to the tagstrip. I will have to repeat this operation for the dial lamp which uses a mains 15W pigmy bulb.

I'm pleased with the appearance of the new transformer wiring.


Rich.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	S3010025.JPG
Views:	434
Size:	167.5 KB
ID:	11033   Click image for larger version

Name:	S3010027.JPG
Views:	382
Size:	122.7 KB
ID:	11034  
__________________
There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman.....
Sideband is online now  
Old 21st Jul 2007, 11:42 pm   #7
Radio_Dave
Nonode
 
Radio_Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 2,543
Default Rewiring old equipment.

I have to admit, that I normally leave the pre war type of cloth covered, rubber wire alone, as it virtually always looks in good shape .

The post war rubber wire is a different story though, and I always change it with 24/0.2 PVC

David
Radio_Dave is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 11:14 am   #8
Brian R Pateman
Nonode
 
Brian R Pateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Lake District, Cumbria (CA20) - UK
Posts: 2,136
Default Rewiring old equipment.

All of these approaches are valid.

My wife has often queried why I have boxes of bits of wire cluttering the place up. They are all offcuts, ends of reels and odd lengths of multicore wire for stripping out as the need arises. I prefer to use modern PVC insulated wire in most sets.

The most important thing to remember is that it isn't the type of wire which will give you problems but where it is routed. Especially in RF and oscillator stages a wire re-positioned by only a few millimetres can change the way the circuit works. This is especially important in HF and test equipment circuits.

For this reason I would only re-wire if it was absolutely necessary.

Don't give yourself extra work for the sake of it!

Regards,
__________________
Brian
Brian R Pateman is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 11:18 am   #9
Darren-UK
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 4,061
Default Rewiring old equipment.

Referring in general and also to post #7 specifically, you sometimes find old rubber insulation (on cloth covered wire) has perished only at the extremities where it's exposed. Beneath the cloth covering it can remain perfectly serviceable.

You can therefore snip off the ends until you reach good rubber and simply reconnect....providing the length of the wire after shortening will permit this, of course.

In other respects I generally do what Graham ( Station X ) has outlined in post #2.
Darren-UK is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 11:24 am   #10
RoundyMooney
Tetrode
 
RoundyMooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 56
Default Rewiring old equipment.

It seems that, like a lot of things, there are many approaches, all of which have their own merits, and of course, the way forward is determined by the value of the project in question.

I think what I'll do, in light of the advice here, is adapt the canvas over PVC approach of Richard, for anything that's visible, but I'll probably (with the RF/IF chassis, which is more intricate than the power supply/amp stage pictured) leave the wiring in situ, rewiring where necessary, and see how the dishwasher treatment goes (after removing wirewound components etc., and anything likely to be hurt by intensive washing).

Thanks again for all the input,

R.
__________________
Putting the smoke back into antiquated junk since 1977
RoundyMooney is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 3:32 pm   #11
magnastat
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 40
Default Rewiring old equipment.

A situation that has happened to me a few times is a pre-War that has had repairs carried out in it's later lifetime.
So you've got wire and components of 1930s vintage and wire and components of 1950s or 1960s vintage.

So a true to from restoration is somewhat harder
magnastat is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 3:51 pm   #12
Ed_Dinning
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 8,171
Default Rewiring old equipment.

Hi Gents, try the cable that is used in electric cookers to hook up the controls and elements. The Thorn, Tricity etc range used a Si rubber with coloured braid covering, looked old/authentic and was a good diameter.
Trips to the Tip!!!
Good hunting
Ed
Ed_Dinning is online now  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 4:48 pm   #13
Mike Phelan
Dekatron
 
Mike Phelan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 4,609
Default Rewiring old equipment.

One way, for fabric covered wire, is to start with plain tinned copper - 20g to 26g, probably, then get either some white shoelaces or the white nylon cord you can get in B&Q or a haberdasher. The latter needs the centre core pulling out so you end up with a tube.
Then use fabric dye to colour it, and, if the original was varnished, spray it with clear lacquer or dunk it into some water-based varnish.
__________________
Mike.
Mike Phelan is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 1:30 am   #14
PJL
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Seaford, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 5,997
Default Rewiring old equipment.

On the prewar 30's Marconi/HMV sets I have worked on, the under chassis wiring is often waxed cotton and the rest are cotten covered rubber.

The waxed cotton often loses wax from heat and ageing and definitely won't cope with the dishwasher treatment. These sets often use 350V+ AC and it may not be a bad idea to replace the sleeving at least around the rectifier - they may have called it insulation but I don't think I would trust it enough to touch it!
PJL is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 11:37 am   #15
Sideband
Dekatron
 
Sideband's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 7,549
Default Rewiring old equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darren-uk View Post
you sometimes find old rubber insulation (on cloth covered wire) has perished only at the extremities where it's exposed. Beneath the cloth covering it can remain perfectly serviceable.
Yes I agree with this. However in the example I gave in post#6, part of the original wire runs past the rectifier valve and over the years, it had become hard. The rubber was just breaking up. In this situation there is no other choice but to replace but because it is visible I used the method shown.


Rich.
__________________
There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman.....
Sideband is online now  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 5:24 pm   #16
RoundyMooney
Tetrode
 
RoundyMooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 56
Default Rewiring old equipment.

The results are in from the dishwasher jury. (The entire chassis took a bath last night).

Basically, in this case, heat damage doesn't appear to be a factor once seventy years of crud were flushed down the drain. In fact the wiring came up like new! However, for appearances sake I'll probably redo all the connections, as while they appear solid, the canvas at the ends has indeed become frayed, and consequently the rubber has perished a little.

Topside, things aren't so rosy with cracked cabling everywhere (presumably the heat from transformers and valves has done the damage here). Seeing as it's more visible, a repair here will have to look the part, and it looks as if I will be sleeving here.
__________________
Putting the smoke back into antiquated junk since 1977
RoundyMooney is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:32 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.