Why different stylus nominated for the same cartridge?

[hayerjoe]

I have a number of BSR UA25 record players, they all use the Type C1 ceramic cartridge, but why do some require ST15/16/17 stylus and others ST3/4/5? The stylus fitting is identical for both, why would a different stylus be nominated?

As player, tonearm, cartridge etc are all identical is it something to do with the amp the cartridge feeds to?

Also this is not the Sapphire / diamond difference as this difference is separately indictated on the stylus eg ST4D is the diamond version of the ST4

Look forward to your responses

[Edward Huggins]

Variations do occur within the BSR ST series in terms of stylus shank material and tip type whether it be single or dual LPS, or LPS/78, or sapphire or diamond. The plastic shanked type are low-compliance and for use with high-output cartridges.

[hayerjoe]

Also I should point out I've seen forum member 'Bens' excellent list of ceramic cartridges and stylus, but I'm fairly certain that I have C1 carts fitted with both ST stylus I listed AND the decks have little official stickers on them saying use stylus ST4. Now obviously the cart could have been changed over the years but I don't think they have

[ben]

The older ST3/4/5 is very similar to the later ST12/14/15, the latter probably has slightly better compliance -if you look closely there is a bigger rubber suspension on it. It looks to me just a design improvement. I have not checked this, however.

One thing you notice is the rake angle/ incline on the ST4 tip, presumably to account for the use in autochangers where the cart sits at a greater angle.

The ST 3/4/5 is what would have come with the C1. The ST12/14/15 would have been suppplied with the X5M /SX5M/SX6M range.

As you have found they are compatible. Not worth losing any sleep over!

The major difference is between these and the ST16/17, which are much smaller and definitely will not fit.

[hayerjoe]

thanks Ben, yes you are right, I shouldn't have thrown 16/17 in with that lot, 12/14/15 was what I meant ! But thanks for clarifying that the ST12/14/15 are compatible with the C1. Interestingly I'm 99% certain here in Australia they officially fitted the St12 set in C1 carts and even added an officiall sticker to the deck saying so

Cheers
Jo

[ben]

Originally Posted by hayerjoe

in Australia they officially fitted the St12 set in C1 carts and even added an officiall sticker to the deck saying so

Come to think of it, I'm sure I've seen that before as well!

[hayerjoe]

it's morning now in Tasmania so I've just closely inspected an ST4 and an ST15, so yes I can see the differences you were talking about, better compliance rubber and less raked. But good to know they are compatible, I guess the ST15 set are preferred as they are a later development.

I always like to delve a little deeper even when I've got my answer, so why are there multiples in each set eg why is there at ST3 and a ST4 and a ST5, are there subtle differences between each? if not why list 3?

thanks

[ben]

I'm pretty sure that's down to the type of point and jewel. For example, all the ST16s I've seen have been sapphire/sapphire and have a 78 tip. The ST17 usually has at least one diamond and I think they're dual LP tips.
As far as I recall ST12 is LP/78 sapphire/sapphire, ST14 LP/78 diamond/sapphire and ST15 LP/LP diamond/diamond.

[hayerjoe]

ah, that does make sense and would explain why new ones always say compatible with the full set. basically yep they fit your cartridge regardless of jewell combination

That said I'm 90% certain I've seen a ST15D and I thought the D was for diamond?

Also I got a pack of Dutch ST4s today and one side said lp/s with a blue dot, the dot being another way of indicating sapphire by the look of it

[ben]

Yes I've seen the D labelled ones too. I suspect they were either aftermarket ones, or maybe BSR changed the labelling to make it clear there was a diamond there!

[AndiiT]

Hi, some later BSR autochangers were only two speed (e.g. 33/45) and as such would not require a stylus with a tip for 78 rpm records, this was the reason that dual LP stylii were produced.

Regards

Andrew