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General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

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Old 11th Apr 2019, 7:07 pm   #1
Karen O
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Default When does old trash turn into vintage?

I confess I sometimes look at car boot electronic items with a view to cannibalisation for parts, and therein lies a dilemma. If it's too new then it will have next to no reuse potential. Too old and it is sacrilege to pull it apart.

Currently, I have absolutely no qualms about hacking a 5.5" Chinese TV, and most things from the nineties onwards I see as trash for recycling. It gets a little fuzzy for items from the eighties. Anything from the early eighties or earlier is off limits, the guilt I'd feel about raiding something from that era would be too great to bear.

Late eighties? Well, I suppose it depends on whether I think it is rare or unusual, or just one of ten million similar mass produced no-name tat.

Is this typical? Am I a vintage electronics philistine?
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 7:24 pm   #2
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

I think vintage electronics, like classic cars, is a particular period, it isn't a rolling timeframe. Proper vintage electronics starts sometime in the 1930s and probably ends in the mid 1990s. Part of the hobby is making things work again, and for anything that requires software or external servers to repair or operate clearly has a fixed shelf life.

Can you imagine wanting to take the time to restore anything made in the last 20 years? I can't - instant landfill.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 8:01 pm   #3
G4YVM David
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

When does ot become V?

Generally speaking about a week after I have grown my lovely example of ot in the recycling.
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Old 11th Apr 2019, 8:58 pm   #4
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

I couldn't myself think at all strictly in terms of date alone. There are surely radios from 50 years ago of such grim quality that nobody could care to preserve or work on them unless under the influence of nostalgia or an enthusiasm for retro kitsch: and both those impulses can be renewed with each generation. On the other hand, I expect, though I don't know them myself, that there are current high-end audio items - esoteric valve amplifiers, say - likely still to appeal and to be kept running thirty or fifty years hence.

I confess to harbouring a few of Pure's first DAB radios from 2001-2, the £500 DRX601EX and the Marconi Special Edition which preceded it: build quality is much better than for most post-1985 domestic electronics, I'd be reluctant to break one (only about 800 601EXs and 300 Special Editions were made) and not unwilling to spend time on their repair or restoration at some point. Rather those than a 1969 Ajax Senator, anyway. Then, I am also giving shelter to a boxed and scarcely used translucent blue 5.5" Chinese TV...

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Old 11th Apr 2019, 9:58 pm   #5
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

... When someone decides they want it!

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Old 12th Apr 2019, 3:24 am   #6
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

We have similar discussions about this at the Retrogames Forum.
Ive been a member of this for many years and when I first joined most of the discussion seemed to be about Commodore64 Atari2600 era with the very latest consoles deemed to be retro would be the Sega Dreamcast.

Nowadays its moved on to PlayStation 2 Xbox era that's also deemed vintage and retro so I guess its a rolling road depending on your age and what you grew up with for me.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 10:43 am   #7
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

Usually when there are only a handful left.

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Old 12th Apr 2019, 1:49 pm   #8
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

Often a lot of old technology gets into a "junk age" when it's relegated to car boot sale fodder & can hardly be given away.

I remember about 15 years ago an independent games shop near me wouldn't accept anything older than the Playstation / Nintendo 64 generation games for exchange.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 3:45 pm   #9
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

When does old trash turn into vintage: Around a year after you threw out the exact same thing.
Or in auction site listings.

Those shoals of 1950's and 60's kit radios: I suppose they could have been negatively regarded in their time. But they served a purpose and they are not exactly rare, even now.
I mean asking one hundred pounds for an Ivory Little Maestro styled TRF with more dust than King Tut's tomb. They'd take offence if you laughed and told them what it was really worth.

Imagine someone having one of these welded shut throwaway flat panel TV's BNIB in 2040.
Would people go after it with the enthusiasm that people would today for a boxed & unopened Ekco A22 or a PAM 710? Who knows.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 11:50 pm   #10
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

I give room for a handful of Digital Alpha and pentium servers from last century, they take up so much space but it would be sacrilege to dispose of them, also they are so well built. One day I may do something with them.
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 8:45 am   #11
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio263 View Post
I think vintage electronics, like classic cars, is a particular period, it isn't a rolling timeframe. Proper vintage electronics starts sometime in the 1930s and probably ends in the mid 1990s. Part of the hobby is making things work again, and for anything that requires software or external servers to repair or operate clearly has a fixed shelf life.

Can you imagine wanting to take the time to restore anything made in the last 20 years? I can't - instant landfill.

And for anything that young, why would you bother to restore anything? After all, with a bit of searching you can probably find a pristine example for a few bob, and possibly even an "as new" example which has never been out of its packing!
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 8:54 am   #12
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_FM View Post
Often a lot of old technology gets into a "junk age" when it's relegated to car boot sale fodder & can hardly be given away.

I remember about 15 years ago an independent games shop near me wouldn't accept anything older than the Playstation / Nintendo 64 generation games for exchange.
I think the "Car-boot effect" is quite significant here, fuelled by the 'is it still usable?' effect.

MW/LW-only radios - whether valve or transistor - are of ever-diminishing utility to most consumers, as the number of stations they can receive shrinks with every passing month. So they appear at car-boot-sales, and if they don't sell they then go to the tip.

CRT TVs - too energy-inefficient, big and bulky, don't support HD or have HDMI inputs, so no use with your new Sky-HD box or PS4. Charity-shops don't want them so it's off to the WEE skip!

Old "Professional" computers - with their specific environmental and power-needs as well as their size they're never going to be a collectable that you can easily do anything with; much though I'd like my own VAX 11/780 or IBM Series/3 it wouldn't be very practical and there's limited entertainment that can be gained by watching it re-run a company's payroll from 1986.

Then there's "dead" technology - like dialup modems, the old analog Sky-boxes, and first-generation cellphones - which just don't work any more. They may be interesting talking-points but that's about all: I can't see anyone (yet) going to the effort of Steampunking an old VCR or Sky-box by fitting a lampholder to the top and selling if tor £250!

There is an argument based on the idea that reducing the number of a particular item in existence increases the value of those which remain. So to be honest I'm not that worried about general consumer-items of dubious original quality going to trash, just as long as one or two of the best ones are kept in working order. Personally, I don't like non-working "museum exhibit" electronics [or their 'trailer-queen' classic-car equivalents which only ever go to shows] - my vintage technology needs to work as well (or better) than it did when it was made - and be used regularly!
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 9:30 am   #13
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

I know I have mentioned this before but it is quite classically demonstrated now.

In the '50's most pre war TV's were scrapped, sadly I had a hand in this myself, they were big, bulky and heavy and didn't give a brilliant picture compared with the more 'modern' offerings like the TV22 and were regarded as valueless so most of them were destroyed but try and buy one now!

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Old 13th Apr 2019, 9:34 am   #14
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

This usually happens when you reach the age of 70...J.
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 9:58 am   #15
Peter.N.
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

That's about right John.

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Old 13th Apr 2019, 11:12 am   #16
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

Curiously when I asked a working museum whether they were interested in a late 'fifties EKCO they said they already had a couple and did not consider them an endangered species! TV sets from the 'eighties however- they were having trouble getting hold of. Hmm! This one has a happy ending as K had the EKCO and painstakingly returned it to working order, then sold it off for the same price he paid for it. Now that's enthusiasm.

Cannibalisation.. I only have reservations with this when the parts are used for a different type of assembly. There is an AVO graveyard on top of my filing cabinet, six donors regularly losing parts. There is an added advantage, the backs can come off straight away and they are a brilliant 3D reference map for when repairs get confusing.

Dr.Quatermass (above) has a good point about format, digitisation, connectivity and compatibility issues- it is the slightly regrettable march of technology which progressively makes quite beautiful items into little more than curios, well made paperweights or window dressing.
This could be why people are ever more going mad for old avometers- they have a certain degree of enduring immunity, if one takes care not to blow things up by disregarding input impedance issues.

Going back to (late) car boot finds, the combined effects of sun and rain may mean that more modern stuff has issues which tend to restrict their use to parts donors...or ultimately WEEE. A lot of this stuff goes to many boot sales before it is sold.

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Old 13th Apr 2019, 12:15 pm   #17
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Philpott View Post
Curiously when i asked a working museum whether they were interested in a late 'fifties EKCO they said they already had a couple and did not consider them an endangered species! TV sets from the 'eighties however- they were having trouble getting hold of. Hmm!
For some reason the world is awash with '50's wooden cased TV's. There is always a few on Ebay and despite some insane optimism from sellers, they never seem to sell for much. So they are obviously not much sought after either by people that want them for what they are or the 'retro' brigade.

Dual standard sets from the '60's and early colour sets from the '70's are in a different league. They seem much more sought after and exist in very small numbers.

Late '70's & '80's colour sets seem to be wanted by the retro games enthusiasts, but I don't think it will ever go much beyond that.

I think the whole vintage technology thing is very much a one off moment in time and is driven by people who remember the stuff when it was current. Look at any BVWS event and play 'spot the person under 70'! There will only be a small handful!

So I think the whole thing will just fade away over the next 20 years along with big chunks of the classic car world. I don't think there will be any nostalgia for widescreen TV's in faceless plastic boxes which aren't repairable anyway or DAB radios etc or phones & tablets that won't be suitable to connect to the internet.

Even now, what earthly good is an Avometer or a 405 line TV to the vast majority of the population? I don't like it, but I can understand why they get 'upcycled' into hideous objects!

So my opinion is that if it's not already considered 'vintage', then it never will become so!

All the best
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 1:10 pm   #18
Karen O
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

Thank you all for some very interesting points. They have convinced me that I'm not a vintage technology murderer! That's not to say that I haven't done things I regret in the distant past

In actual fact, I have saved three very tidy examples of those little Chinese tellies. One has 'VHF1' and 'VHF2' TV bands that appear to work. They all get frequent use as handy monitors. The build quality of most of them is appalling, but they were an early noughties phenomenon even so.

I really do wonder about modern tech though. Digital connectivity is much, much harder to recreate than analogue: I mean, making something that generates 405 line signals is very challenging but not impossible. Is anyone going to try to recreate USB protocols when it becomes seriously obsolete? Or some proprietary peripheral interface?

I wonder...
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 3:50 pm   #19
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

I find it interesting to listen to what 'young people' regard as 'classic', when I come across any to talk to. I suspected myself of an enthusiasm for things I could just about remember from my own early childhood, but which were rather old-fashioned and perhaps absent from the houses of more up-to-date friends (perhaps this says something about the houses of my close family ). Some young people I talk to - our kids' and their friends etc - seem to follow this pattern too - which suggests the date for classic interest is rolling.

(It was really funny the other day when Our Kid had some friends over for 14th birthday celebrations. It struck me that they might find it fun to play with the portable changer and a stack of 45s. That they did - and they video'd themselves doing it, using amazing hi-tech phones of such sophistication, which they hardly regard as amazing at all! But this is a different route to classic status - records are in-fashion).
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 4:34 pm   #20
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Default Re: When does old trash turn into vintage?

Records are very much in fashion today if the huge queues at the independent record stores are anything to go by today?

It's National Record Store Day today and the queues stretch forever outside the shops and looking at the customers there are so many younger people waiting in line they probably outnumber the older generation.

I'm off to the Cheltenham record fair tomorrow and I'm betting that a large majority of customers will be the younger generation.
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