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Old 26th Dec 2010, 3:30 pm   #41
geofy
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Post Re: justradios

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I understand your post, nobody in their right mind would neglect the small orders a business has to neglect orders that make a loss. The original post was moaning about minimum order acceptance and £10 is about as low as you can get was my comment.
Don't think I was moaning as such, just trying to point out that for the amateur it is difficult not only to get components but to justify the cost. But the mere fact there are still several suppliers that sell one off's it is still worth their while. Sometimes the problem is not knowing about the places that sell these things in small quantities. It is up to the customer whether they think it is worthwhile spending tens times the amount on the postage cost than the part they are trying to buy, or instead buying far more than they could ever use to reach a minimum order charge made by some suppliers. As there are plenty of UK suppliers it is worth buying from these rather than from another country, which is what I should have done in the first place.

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Old 26th Dec 2010, 3:31 pm   #42
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Michael,
I dont't think that anyone is arguing that there shouldn't be a Minimum Order Charge, certainly not me. I thing there were two requests. First that the chage should be reasonable - a dificult concept because everyone will have a difernt idea. Second that the Companies should be happy to deal with 'the public'. I'm sure that most of us remember the days of the signs saying 'Trade Only'. I always took the view that my money was as good as anyone else's, and went so far as to generate official looking Orders on occasion.
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 4:12 pm   #43
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Originally Posted by MichaelR View Post

Extract . . . from Post #38:

I keep repeating myself - all I am trying to state is that minimum order values are there for a valid commercial reason.The viewpoint that removing them and attract small value orders from hobbyists somehow is good business practice I do not believe.

Mike
And that part is something that I do agree with.

So it would appear then that the issue between us here turns on the value of the minimum order, rather than who places the order, or the concept of a minumum order.

However, just to conclude my contribution and to put my sentiments in focus, I would be happy to place a minimum order of £20 plus carriage plus VAT @ 17.5%, especially if the carriage came to about £5.

Al.

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Old 26th Dec 2010, 4:27 pm   #44
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. . . . (I was) just trying to point out that for the amateur it is difficult not only to get components but to justify the (overall) cost.
But the mere fact there are still several suppliers that sell one-off's it is still worth their while.
Re: that last sentence: so there are suppliers who will only accept 'sizeable' orders & there are suppliers who will happily accept 'small' ones.
Therefore, it seems to me, you simply take your choice! Or have I missed something?

Al.
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 4:36 pm   #45
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Default Re: justradios

I buy almost exclusively from RS, only going elsewhere if they don't stock what I want. I have an account with them, so there's no minimum order charge and I don't pay postage.

It's an "account", not a "credit account" so I pay by debit card when the order is placed. It's easy to set up an account with RS, all you need to do is make up a company name (not a limited one) and fill in the online form. There are no hoops to jump through. No references from banks or anyone else are needed.
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 4:51 pm   #46
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Thanks for that Graham - very helpful & informative.

I've used RS & Farnell professionally, but have only used CPC as a hobbyist.
Based on what you have said, I'll soon be talking to RS!

Al.
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 4:57 pm   #47
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Default Re: justradios

Though I've had a credit account with RS for many years (from the days when it was difficult to get one) I just find it easier to pay by card when placing an order. I try to order at least £10 worth of stuff even though delivery would be free on even the smallest orders. Call it playing fair. Haven't been to an RS trade counter for years.

Back to the original point. Any business can set its terms and conditions as it sees fit, provided they comply with the law of the land. They may have considered minimum orders carefully or not, that is their prerogative. We are free to shop with them or not as we choose.

I know that many have spoken well of justradios but I'd prefer to order within the EU if only to avoid hassle with VAT. It's not the VAT itself but the £13.50 fee levied by Parcelfarce or Royal Mail for the fun of collecting it. Unless you're ordering several hundred pounds worth of stuff the collection fee is a deterrent.
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 6:10 pm   #48
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orders & there are suppliers who will happily accept 'small' ones.
Therefore, it seems to me, you simply take your choice! Or have I missed
I am not sure if you have missed something or not but I can't be the only person that has tried to buy something only to find there is a minimum order of five or ten. I am sure RS have this so am a little confused about the 'no minimum order' and free postage as the last time I tried RS there was a minimum five of what I wanted and a postal charge!
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 6:19 pm   #49
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I don't think minimum order is the same as minimum quantity. I don't smoke, but if I did, I'd have to buy a packet of ten fags. I couldn't buy four. Buying a minimum quantity helps build up stocks of components and is really no hardship where items like caps and resistors are concerned.
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 6:51 pm   #50
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I don't think minimum order is the same as minimum quantity. no hardship where items like caps and resistors are concerned.
It was possible to buy five Woodbines once. The only problem with having to buy a minimum quantity would be to take my last project for example, it only needed these components;

180R
3K3 WW
10K
47K
22K
220K
0.01u * 3
0.033u * 2

Apart from the capacitors which makes sense to buy more than one off, if only sold in fives the others would leave me with six open packs of four left in each which I would not have any immediate if any use for. And would only add to my collection of unused components.
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 7:18 pm   #51
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Default Re: justradios

I would have assumed that the 10k, 22k, 47k & 220k being very common values would be used fairly frequently.
My I reiterate what I posted earlier, I supplied a number of hobbyists and other TV service companies for about 10 years, I did this prior to and including the time I had my shop. I would often send out a 10p resistor, but remember I had to buy jiffy bags, which I bought locally, stamps, tape etc. I would have to drive to the shops, the post office etc, and when I did raise my P&P charges, often I was told £2.50 was too expensive. I then charged £7.50 minimum including P&P that was for items up to £5, in other words the same, but the complaints still were received.
I didn't have many big orders so stopped doing it as I made little or no money by trying to help out people.
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Old 26th Dec 2010, 8:36 pm   #52
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Geof - I see you have given your location as Essex. As quick 'Google' for "Electronic Components in Essex" churned out quite a few names. Is there no-one in that list that can help you with an 'over-the-counter' service?

Just trying to help.

Al.
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Old 27th Dec 2010, 10:55 am   #53
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I would have assumed that the 10k, 22k, 47k & 220k being very common values would be used fairly frequently.
I didn't have many big orders so stopped doing it as I made little or no money by trying to help out people.
Thanks Trevor, Some of the problem is I already have bags of various resistors, some the right value but wrong wattage. It is useful to have various values but I do not do a huge amount of restoring, it tends to happen when a radio is given to me, or I should happen across one. So now I tend to buy just what I need for a job. Yes it is the other charges that put up the price, the packing material has to be paid for, and Jiffy bags are expensive, and then they are usually then thrown away, though I try to reuse any I get. I know from my own experience of sending things how the postage and packing charges can make it unviable. I have admiration for anyone that tried to making it a going concern, never having tried anything like that myself.

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Geof - I see you have given your location as Essex. 'over-the-counter' service?
Hi Al, There use to be shops in Chelmsford when the factories such as Marconi where there that I could buy parts from, but a lot of these places have long since disappeared. I had a Hacker and Roberts Radio dealer in my local town but that has gone. I will have search to see what is around, there is the Mark Hind Easyweb site that has some useful things. And I appreciate your help very much
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Old 27th Dec 2010, 1:39 pm   #54
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Default Re: justradios

What about Rapid in Colchester? They have a trade counter and are happy to supply hobbyists.
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Old 27th Dec 2010, 5:26 pm   #55
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What about Rapid in Colchester? They have a trade counter and are happy to supply hobbyists.
That would be a sixty mile round trip, I have bought from their Rapid online site. It would be good if they were more local.
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Old 27th Dec 2010, 8:39 pm   #56
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That would be a sixty mile round trip, I have bought from their Rapid online site. It would be good if they were more local.
Indeed, and when you consider just the cost of fuel, never mind your time and the other unavoidable costs of running a car, suddenly the cost of postage seems like a bargain

I remember cycling across Bath, aged 8, to LF Hanney's, which took around 2 hours. Back then, I had time to spare, and didn't seem to worry about being killed on the roads (obviously I didn't tell my parents!). Those days have largely gone - IIRC, I paid 2p each for the resistors, and they are much less than that today from everywhere before you factor in 30 years of inflation. There's no money in selling components on the high street, and I'd bet that the few remaining gems are owned outright and are run as a labour of love. I also wouldn't mind betting that Maplin effectively subsidise their high-street resistor sales via all the computer and "boy racer" tat they sell...

As has been said, the answer is to "put up" and "stock up". And be grateful that these suppliers still exist, because one day, members of the public won't be able to buy components at anything approaching sensible prices - remember that it's declining as a hobby as well as a trade.

By "stock up", I personally can't imagine only buying exactly what I need - what if the new part immediately goes up in smoke because you haven't found the cause yet? You will always be able to use them in the future, despite what you might think now. And sometimes it's crazy not to when you factor in price breaks from the bigger suppliers. For example, last time I repaired some old hi-fi amplifiers, I needed 8 large smoothing capacitors (6800u, 63V). It was actually cheaper to buy 10. And that's money saved on the next job.

Honestly, whatever pressures of space or finance might prevail, being able to reach out for the right components without the hassle of shopping around for the best price, etc, is absolutely invaluable. And don't forget that prices always rise, so your stocks are an investment

Mark
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Old 28th Dec 2010, 1:44 am   #57
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. . . There's no money in selling components on the high street, and I'd bet that the few remaining gems are owned outright and are run as a labour of love . . .

Mark
Yes, Mark, that is probably quite true. However, that remark does prompt me to raise the flag for N. P. Harding, Lower High street, Cheltenham - a stockist of a wide-range of electronic components. However, and in fairness, it must be said that on account of the vast plethora of 'electronic components' that exist today, N.P.H. can't reasonably be expected to have everything you want on every visit. Moreover, some items will be in such small demand that it simply won't be worth his while even stocking them. (When was the last time you bought an OC71? )

Neverthless, I'm adding to my shopping list right now. When the list is big enough to make the trip worthwhile - I'm off!

Incidentally, I have no business association with that named shop or its owner / proprietor.

Al. [Skywave]
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Old 28th Dec 2010, 1:50 am   #58
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Honestly, whatever pressures of space or finance might prevail, being able to reach out for the right components without the hassle of shopping around for the best price, etc, is absolutely invaluable.

Mark
That probably explains why the bedroom ceilings in my house are sagging under the weight of what's in the attic! I dread the day when I have to move house

Al.
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Old 28th Dec 2010, 10:53 am   #59
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However, that remark does prompt me to raise the flag for N. P. Harding, Lower High street, Cheltenham - a stockist of a wide-range of electronic components.
Thanks Al - I didn't know about that, but will endeavour to visit soon
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