Pye black box G63 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Paul Mathew · 20th Oct 2019, 10:25 am

I am restoring a Black Box G63 stereophonic radiogram. I have managed to find the amp schematic, but no info on the FM tuner. Valve line-up is ECC85; 3 x EF89; EBC81. If anyone can help that would be great. Thanks.

Herald1360 · 20th Oct 2019, 10:59 am

I suspect the G63 radiogram must be an export or local SA variant. Here it was only ever a stereogram AFAIK. A Pye FM radio of the period should provide some idea of the radio bits.

Try a search on Radiomuseum for Pye sets with the same RF valve lineup.

I always wondered at the time why my parents' "radiogram" wasn't.

Station X · 20th Oct 2019, 2:18 pm

Could it be one of these?

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/pye_bl...tuner_bbf.html

Paul Mathew · 20th Oct 2019, 5:20 pm

Yes, before it was delivered to me, my research told me it was only a gram, so I was surprised to find the FM receiver. Definitely an export model then. Some more pics attached. The radio has it's own solid state rectifier. It also kept promising company in the year of manufacture.

Herald1360 · 20th Oct 2019, 5:38 pm

Does the tuner actually identify itself as a Pye product?

May be a dealer or even diy mod?

ms660 · 20th Oct 2019, 6:08 pm

Those IFT's look continental/Philips, tuner head's a Gorler.

Lawrence.

Paul Mathew · 20th Oct 2019, 6:20 pm

Not a retrofit by the looks of things. No markings on the chassis except the tuner head made by Gorler, as mentioned. Philips is a good bet.

Cobaltblue · 20th Oct 2019, 6:43 pm

I'm in transit at the mo but I may have the service for this one it brings a bell know in about 2 hours.

Cheers

Mike T

Ed_Dinning · 20th Oct 2019, 7:18 pm

Hi, the tuner shown on Radiomuseum was an additional unit that was fitted as a plinth under the BB. Usually on the Chinevaserie ? unit, hence black.
This unit was switch tuned and had 3 crystals fitted of about 11 MHz frequency. The IF was, I believe about 350KHz.

The unit show by the OP was not one of those and is variable tuning

Ed

Synchrodyne · 20th Oct 2019, 8:57 pm

As well as the Pye G63, there was the G63/T with the HFT113 FM-AM tuner, which was covered by a supplementary service sheet.

The HFT113 was from the Pye hi-fi series, and appears to have been the replacement for the HFT111. The HFT113 fitted into a Mozart-sized case, and had the valve line-up ECC85, ECH81, EF89 and EF184. The valves were mounted horizontally.

There was an FM-only counterpart to the HFT113, namely the HFT109, which I think was released a little after the HFT113, and replaced the Mozart HTF108. I haven’t seen the schematic, but the valve line-up was said to be ECC85, EF80, EF89 and EF184. Whether the HFT109 was ever used in the G63 I do not know.

As to the unit at interest, it could be that Pye South Africa installed a locally-made FM tuner in order to meet local content requirements. Pye products in the “colonies” were often different to their UK counterparts for this and other reasons.

The 3 x EF89 IF strip is probably somewhat unusual. Philips was on record (Philips Technical Review 1955 June) as preferring the ECH81, EF89, EF85 line-up, with the EF85 said to be the optimum choice as the amplifier/limiter for driving a ratio detector. (Although the EF80 was generally the industry choice for driving a Foster-Seeley discriminator.) So one might have expected 2 x EF89, 1 x EF85 for the FM-only case in a Philips circuit.

Cheers,

Cobaltblue · 20th Oct 2019, 9:00 pm

Sorry so far only found G61 G66 G66A G71 none are remote similar chassis wise

Cheers

Mike T

Edward Huggins · 21st Oct 2019, 12:53 pm

I can't see the typical Pye blue (rivetted metal) chassis identifier tag on this. So it may well be of local origin.

Paul Mathew · 21st Oct 2019, 5:49 pm

Finished the re-capping today and tested the set. Radio and turntable working well. Just one helluva mains hum which is present despite the position of the volume knob. The service sheet makes mention of mains hum and suggested remedies (bottom of page 2), which I have done, to no avail. The set is missing one ECL82 output valve and I'm wondering if this is contributing to the hum (distortion?) One is on it's way tomorrow, so we shall see....

20th Oct 2019, 10:25 am	#1
Paul Mathew Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 214	Pye black box G63 I am restoring a Black Box G63 stereophonic radiogram. I have managed to find the amp schematic, but no info on the FM tuner. Valve line-up is ECC85; 3 x EF89; EBC81. If anyone can help that would be great. Thanks.

20th Oct 2019, 10:59 am	#2
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Pye black box g63 I suspect the G63 radiogram must be an export or local SA variant. Here it was only ever a stereogram AFAIK. A Pye FM radio of the period should provide some idea of the radio bits. Try a search on Radiomuseum for Pye sets with the same RF valve lineup. I always wondered at the time why my parents' "radiogram" wasn't. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

20th Oct 2019, 2:18 pm	#3
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Pye black box G63 Could it be one of these? https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/pye_bl...tuner_bbf.html __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

20th Oct 2019, 5:20 pm	#4
Paul Mathew Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 214	Re: Pye black box G63 Yes, before it was delivered to me, my research told me it was only a gram, so I was surprised to find the FM receiver. Definitely an export model then. Some more pics attached. The radio has it's own solid state rectifier. It also kept promising company in the year of manufacture. Attached Thumbnails

20th Oct 2019, 5:38 pm	#5
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Pye black box G63 Does the tuner actually identify itself as a Pye product? May be a dealer or even diy mod? __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

20th Oct 2019, 6:08 pm	#6
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: Pye black box G63 Those IFT's look continental/Philips, tuner head's a Gorler. Lawrence.

20th Oct 2019, 6:20 pm	#7
Paul Mathew Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 214	Re: Pye black box G63 Not a retrofit by the looks of things. No markings on the chassis except the tuner head made by Gorler, as mentioned. Philips is a good bet. Attached Thumbnails

20th Oct 2019, 6:43 pm	#8
Cobaltblue Moderator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Exeter, Devon and Poole, Dorset UK. Posts: 6,864	Re: Pye black box G63 I'm in transit at the mo but I may have the service for this one it brings a bell know in about 2 hours. Cheers Mike T __________________ Invisible airwaves crackle with life or at least they used to Mike T BVWS member. www.cossor.co.uk

20th Oct 2019, 7:18 pm	#9
Ed_Dinning Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 8,194	Re: Pye black box G63 Hi, the tuner shown on Radiomuseum was an additional unit that was fitted as a plinth under the BB. Usually on the Chinevaserie ? unit, hence black. This unit was switch tuned and had 3 crystals fitted of about 11 MHz frequency. The IF was, I believe about 350KHz. The unit show by the OP was not one of those and is variable tuning Ed

20th Oct 2019, 8:57 pm	#10
Synchrodyne Nonode Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Papamoa Beach, Bay of Plenty, New Zealand Posts: 2,944	Re: Pye black box G63 As well as the Pye G63, there was the G63/T with the HFT113 FM-AM tuner, which was covered by a supplementary service sheet. The HFT113 was from the Pye hi-fi series, and appears to have been the replacement for the HFT111. The HFT113 fitted into a Mozart-sized case, and had the valve line-up ECC85, ECH81, EF89 and EF184. The valves were mounted horizontally. There was an FM-only counterpart to the HFT113, namely the HFT109, which I think was released a little after the HFT113, and replaced the Mozart HTF108. I haven’t seen the schematic, but the valve line-up was said to be ECC85, EF80, EF89 and EF184. Whether the HFT109 was ever used in the G63 I do not know. As to the unit at interest, it could be that Pye South Africa installed a locally-made FM tuner in order to meet local content requirements. Pye products in the “colonies” were often different to their UK counterparts for this and other reasons. The 3 x EF89 IF strip is probably somewhat unusual. Philips was on record (Philips Technical Review 1955 June) as preferring the ECH81, EF89, EF85 line-up, with the EF85 said to be the optimum choice as the amplifier/limiter for driving a ratio detector. (Although the EF80 was generally the industry choice for driving a Foster-Seeley discriminator.) So one might have expected 2 x EF89, 1 x EF85 for the FM-only case in a Philips circuit. Cheers,

20th Oct 2019, 9:00 pm	#11
Cobaltblue Moderator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Exeter, Devon and Poole, Dorset UK. Posts: 6,864	Re: Pye black box G63 Sorry so far only found G61 G66 G66A G71 none are remote similar chassis wise Cheers Mike T __________________ Invisible airwaves crackle with life or at least they used to Mike T BVWS member. www.cossor.co.uk

21st Oct 2019, 12:53 pm	#12
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Pye black box G63 I can't see the typical Pye blue (rivetted metal) chassis identifier tag on this. So it may well be of local origin. __________________ Edward.

21st Oct 2019, 5:49 pm	#13
Paul Mathew Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 214	Re: Pye black box G63 Finished the re-capping today and tested the set. Radio and turntable working well. Just one helluva mains hum which is present despite the position of the volume knob. The service sheet makes mention of mains hum and suggested remedies (bottom of page 2), which I have done, to no avail. The set is missing one ECL82 output valve and I'm wondering if this is contributing to the hum (distortion?) One is on it's way tomorrow, so we shall see.... Last edited by Station X; 21st Oct 2019 at 6:04 pm. Reason: Forum Rule B8.