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Old 19th Apr 2018, 5:48 pm   #21
peter_scott
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Default Re: Homemade record player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman View Post
I get the impression that there's a thought that this could be a Clarke & Smith schools player, but would they really have made something so 'unfinished'?

- any thoughts?
A prototype?

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Old 19th Apr 2018, 5:54 pm   #22
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Default Re: Homemade record player

The cabinet looks pretty accurately cut. It could be one of a small run by a small firm for a local education authority or a private school. Buy a speaker, buy an amp and a turntable, make a box. It could have been a cabinet made for some flogger of bits in the back of practical wireless in the early sixties.

Much more interesting than yet another mass produced one. this player has a story to tell.

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Old 22nd Apr 2018, 4:00 pm   #23
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Default Re: Homemade record player

A prototype 'could' be a possibility. It could be that a specification for a cabinet was given to a woodworker to make and then particularly the holes for the amplifier control spindles were drilled at a later date when it was decided what amplifier to use. I say this as the wood has been split away on the inside due to being drilled without a piece of sacrificial wood on the inside, which would have been difficult with the cabinet already assembled. A production run cabinet would have had the holes drilled in the side panel before assembly - at least you would have thought so. The cabinet is very accurately cut, with a perfectly fitting motor/deck board and really the only rough part is the holes drilled for the amplifier spindles which doesn't particularly matter as it's not seen.

I agree that this is a very interesting player and certainly there is a story to tell on how it came into being. There are more problems with the deck than I'd expected. The top pin has been sheared off on the speed change spindle so will need drilling out, it's been done a while as there's no sign of the broken off bit, the lower one can be seen still OK and can be used as a comparrison. Also the middle circlip on this spindle is broken. Motor mounting rubbers are bad, but all repairable with a bit of time and effort.

The cartridge seems to be working. I agree that by its colour it did at first look a bit like an Acos and by it's shape a bit like a Sonotone, but turned out to be a trade replacement Pinnacle.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 12:32 am   #24
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Default Re: Homemade record player

Now drilled out the broken off stub of the pin and made and fitted a replacement - see first picture below. I'll see if I can obtain a proper replacement circlip. I have made these in the past, but it's not ideal and is a bit fiddly. I think it's the same size as the one for the platter spindle on this deck, so may see if I can obtain a few - I haven't looked for any in the usual places on the net as yet.

I'm wondering whether to leave the outside of the cabinet as it is and just give it another coat of varnish or varnish stain, or perhaps give it a coat of classic Elpico green, or two tone green and off white. Something will need to be done to the inside of the lid and deck mounting board anyway. Below are a couple of examples that I've dragged out of my collection of typical 'Elpico green' to give a bit of an idea. It'll then be (look like) a genuine Elpico record player, and a one off one at that
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 12:50 am   #25
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Default Re: Homemade record player

The record player has been put back together and is working fine.

I haven't painted it green. It's still the same with its coat of varnish type stain on the outer faces of the cabinet. It does really need finishing off with something better and particularly the inside of the lid and deck area need some sort of finish being applied to the untreated wood.

I've kept with the Elpico 'green' theme with replacement capacitors in the amplifier where needed

After playing a few records the amplifier packed up. It looked like the ECC83 heater had gone out! I removed the amplifier to look for a fault but it turned out that the valve had just lost vacuum, but with no whiteness showing on the glass at that stage. I fitted another valve and that didn't last long either - with the same fault, close inspection showing cracking round the pins. I think the pins on this valve were slightly bent and the particular valve bases used in this amplifier have a very stiff grip. Having fitted a third valve making sure the pins were perfectly straight I've had no more problems - good job I've got a few spares!

The verdict on this player is that the amplifier is really far too good for it. That speaker, although being good, is nearly blown into the next decade by the amplifier and careful adjustment of the tone controls, especially the bass, is needed to calm things down. It could really have done with being fitted with a larger one, or even two - there's enough room in the cabinet. I may try setting the speaker impedance switch from 15 ohms to 3 ohms to see if that's a bit kinder to that 15 ohm speaker. I think the amplifier is designed to accommodate a low output magnetic cartridge, and although the high output crystal cartridge fitted is matched to the amplifier with a 1.9M resistor in series, and with a 100K after it in parallel in the pickup head, the output is still too high. There's still very audible sound from the speaker even with the volume control turned all the way down to zero, but with the tone controls being inoperative at this level of operation. It could be that there's an issue in this early stages of the circuit which I may need to revisit to investigate, but I suspect that the real reason is that there's just too much output coming from the pickup in the first place. The lid needs to be left open while playing due to the thinner ply of the actual top resonating on bass tones, although when not resonating, the 'tone' is better with the lid closed, so it'll need some 'felt' or similar lining to stop this - as seen used to address the same problem with many other players and radiograms. It still sounds a lot better than most portable record players of this type, though.

Most 'sensible' people would have broken this player for parts and sold the rather nice amplifier on, but that isn't really me. There's something rather special about this player and I suspect it has a story to tell about why it was made. I think one of the earlier pictures in this thread shows a mark where there was a sheet of paper taped to the inside of the lid - I wonder what was written on that sheet of paper? There was a box of LPs with this record player, some of which from the late 50s were stamped as DJ copies not for sale. Perhaps the owner was a late 50s DJ and had this record player for previewing records before playing them on the air? There's an indication that the person that made the cabinet was not the same person that applied the coat of stain, as can be seen in one of the photos below that the 'decorative' coat was applied after the cabinet fittings were fitted - probably painted on by the person it was made for at a later date then?

I think that what I'm going to do is to fit some jack sockets to the side of the cabinet near the existing control panel - one for an external (larger) speaker, another for an input directly to the amplifier and possibly another taking an output from just the pickup. Doing this will keep this very 'punchy' amplifier (and also the record deck) as a very usable unit for various purposes, while still keeping the original unit as-is. I've still got to do something with the original control knobs, although they have degraded quite badly and I've fitted some temporary non-matching types for the time being.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 8:19 am   #26
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Default Re: Homemade record player

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_scott View Post
It looks quite like a schools record player.
http://viyoutube.com/video/eQ4mTFLXt...ecord%20player

Peter
I wonder what else is on that site, the viyoutube.com site is blocked by my Virgin child safe filter.

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Old 18th Jul 2018, 9:02 am   #27
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Default Re: Homemade record player

The Viyoutube site is blocked by Talk Talk, a screen stating 'you are entering a suspicious website' appears when I click the link in Mike (crackle's) post.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 12:04 pm   #28
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Default Re: Homemade record player

It appears to be something to do with downloading the videos, rather than just watching them. It adds a download tab, but otherwise seems to be normal. Doesn't like adblock though, so must be advert financed.

Edit: If you're suspicious, go to YouTube and search for Clarke & Smith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ4mTFLXtHo
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 12:18 pm   #29
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Default Re: Homemade record player

It looks like Virgin and Talk Talk were being helpful. You want to know just what anything is that will perform a download, so maybe this facility is just considered a bit too risky for general access.

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Old 20th Jul 2018, 9:57 am   #30
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Default Re: Homemade record player

I would try unclipping that Pinnacle clone of the Sonotone 2509 and see if it is labeled on top 'PXS2H'. If it is, you should replace it with a lower output Sonotone, which will clip straight in.
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 12:55 am   #31
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So we're saying that the cartridge is a ceramic type then, Ben?

I certainly thought that it looked like a ceramic type and mentioned Sonotone in post #23. There's a picture of the label on top of the cartridge in post #8, it's a PXM 1H. I'm not familiar with Pinnacle cartridge numbering and confess that I haven't done any research on them as yet. I was thinking that the 'X' in the type number indicated a crystal type, despite the 'look', and that the 'H' at the end of the number indicated the output being of the high variety?

I've found some other pictures on the 'net, of what looks to be another 'homebrew' record player, but which purports to be an HMV - I may post these pictures up a bit further along for interest and comparison.

The HT really is exactly 400 volts, with the smoothing can rated at 375 volts normal working! I don't know what the designers were thinking, but they probably thought they'd use best quality parts with Mullard valves and push things to the max. It's quite happy at this, as it's been left on for several hours at a time without a bang, smoke or any other problems!

The date on the smoothing can was sometime in 1960 - I think I quoted the month in a previous post. As an aside, I said previously about some of the LP records that were with the player being late fifties. Interestingly, the 'DJ copy' one shown above has (c)1958 on its label, but some research has shown that the recording of that particular record was started in November 1959 and was completed in early 1960 and released soon afterwards, so that date on the record looks like a mistake. So this puts the record in 1960, the same as the amplifier and probably the year the record player was made. I had wondered whether the internet information was incorrect, but I've looked again and I think it is actually correct. There's another record in the 'lot' which is stamped as a 'DJ copy not for sale', by the same record label, also dated 1958, and I reckon that could also be a mistake - very strange.

The record player still needs work doing to it, but seeing as I don't like leaving things around in bits while I'm getting on with other stuff, I popped it all back together as it's now in working condition, to come back to at a later stage - but not too much later!
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 9:57 am   #32
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Default Re: Homemade record player

Your Pinnacle is a mono crystal type. The specs are in page 5 of the document I made up of cart data. I think it was also badged Garrard GCM31 (Sonotone 2109). I'd certainly give one of the medium output ceramics a try as the bodies are are the same. HTH.
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 12:19 pm   #33
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Thanks Ben. Trust me to not look at your cartridges list first! Recommended tracking weights are shown as well - I think I've got mine tracking a bit less at around 5g.

Although there's both mono, stereo compatible mono, and stereo crystal cartridges, I can't think of any mono stereo compatible ceramic cartridges, so mine being a ceramic type would have been either very unusual or impossible.

Something else I notice about this record player (all the inherent design issues of a homebrew are showing themselves) is that when a record is playing there'll be a certain bass note that triggers off a resonance and you notice what seems to be a low hum from the speaker, but not mains hum, a bit like a 'howl-round' effect. Either reducing the bass at the bass control or pressing one corner of the record deck down on its suspension onto the motor board for a second, stops the hum. Keeping the deck pressed onto the motor board soon brings back low frequency resonance and rumble as would be expected. The frequency response of that amplifier is just too good for a portable all in one record player. I may try fitting some bits of foam in the record deck suspension springs and see what that does. It could even be resonance in the pickup arm and head - maybe even a symptom of that cartridge.
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