UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10th Dec 2021, 6:42 pm   #2621
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I believe in beer, £2 on 'speaker wire, £23,456 left for beer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th Dec 2021, 10:50 pm   #2622
joebog1
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 2,704
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I think merlinmaxwell and I are great thinkers, and could discuss for a very long time speakers like these.

Joe
joebog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Dec 2021, 12:38 am   #2623
Craig Sawyers
Dekatron
 
Craig Sawyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 5,164
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Remember way back when audio retailers, Sinclair included, used to show prices is guineas. Although a long obsolete coinage, it was taken to be 21 shillings, or one pound one shilling. It was a way of making stuff look cheaper than it actually was.

Craig
__________________
Doomed for a certain term to walk the night
Craig Sawyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Dec 2021, 1:58 am   #2624
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 23,253
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

OK, so now I've got the Monty Python Australian Philosophers Song running in my head...

But there is a valid point, stupid amounts of money spent buying unreal hifi 'improvements' do have a real effect.... on the bank accounts of the purchaser.

What are they missing out on that they could have used that money on? Worse, what are the innocents in their families missing out on?

If it's just some daft billionaire heir wasting his dosh, I don't expect there's much sympathy. But what about the case of someone of more normal means, distorting budgets to pay for snake oil? The cost of those speaker cables would buy a family a new car or several holidays. It gets worse if it limits things seen more as necessities.

I don't see this sort of hype as always a victimless crime.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Dec 2021, 12:31 pm   #2625
Craig Sawyers
Dekatron
 
Craig Sawyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 5,164
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

There is a guy on an audio forum who swears by the Synergistic Research "Purple" fuse - at £190 a pop (he's American so it is $190 a pop). No amount of logic about a mains side fuse impacting audio quality one iota will shake him in his opinion.

He even insists that they take 200 hours to "burn in". Not just taking current mind you (leave it turned on for two weeks) but with audio signals. So listening for one hour a day it would take 7 months to "break in".

He's impervious to the logic that if the colour cast of you TV shifted slightly over 7 months - would you notice? Not at all.

Next question was at £$190 why are they not supplied pre-broken-in? After all a break-in rack with 500 fuses would be straightforward, connected in either parallel or series to a power amp playing into a dummy load for two weeks. No answer.

Oddly the guy's handle is Weber, which is kind of ironic when you think about it.

So it is down to an act of faith that this sort of nonsense makes one iota of difference. And as faith, it is something unchallengeable.

Craig
__________________
Doomed for a certain term to walk the night
Craig Sawyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Dec 2021, 3:44 pm   #2626
stevehertz
Dekatron
 
stevehertz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 8,951
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers View Post

He's impervious to the logic that if the colour cast of you TV shifted slightly over 7 months - would you notice? Not at all.

So it is down to an act of faith that this sort of nonsense makes one iota of difference. And as faith, it is something unchallengeable.

Craig
Yes, and our eyes are far more sensitive than our ears. I've often used this analogy/comparison in the past in discussions with such people, but of course audiophools will be audiophools and they believe in the ultimate ability of their ears to hear the minutest of differences in sounds emitting from a pair of speakers.
__________________
A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..
stevehertz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Dec 2021, 5:37 pm   #2627
The Philpott
Dekatron
 
The Philpott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,185
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Agree it's certainly not victimless, just for starters there are plenty of people not in full possession of faculties, but who still have debit and credit cards that their inner circle are desperately trying to pry away from them.

Note how pricing in Guineas persisted for over 150yrs after the coin had stopped being minted- but could still be raised from the dead to the seller's advantage.

Dave
The Philpott is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Dec 2021, 6:00 pm   #2628
stevehertz
Dekatron
 
stevehertz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 8,951
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Philpott View Post
Agree it's certainly not victimless, just for starters there are plenty of people not in full possession of faculties, but who still have debit and credit cards that their inner circle are desperately trying to pry away from them.

Note how pricing in Guineas persisted for over 150yrs after the coin had stopped being minted- but could still be raised from the dead to the seller's advantage.

Dave
I don't think that anyone who ever paid for something in guineas (at that time) was not aware that a guinea was one pound and one shilling. Big difference to the outright porkies and downright BS being spouted these days by the manufacturers of audiophool products.
__________________
A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..
stevehertz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Dec 2021, 7:08 pm   #2629
knobtwiddler
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 1,102
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

There have been a few occasions where someone's come to me and asked if I think such-and-such audiophool product is a scam. I guess they were halfway to the realisation in the first place, in that they called me for advice. In a majority of occasions, I've managed to persuade them to spend their hard-earned on something that'll make a difference, such as improving room acoustics. I think a lot of the snake oil vendors get away with it because their target audience are qualified in fields that are highly detached from engineering. If you can convey how ridiculous some of the products are in accessible language, you can often get the penny to drop.

There was one notable exception, where a client wanted to fit a replacement bearing to a turntable. I showed him that a review measured it increased flutter (a bearing downgrade!), and that its general engineering was inferior to the standard one. I couldn't talk him round, and he ended up buying 2 of these aftermarket bearings, for about the price of a couple of ok turntables!
knobtwiddler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Dec 2021, 9:13 pm   #2630
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 23,253
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

It is far easier to scam someone than to convince someone that they have been scammed.

The former involves making a fool of them.
The latter involves them admitting they've been a fool.

Pricing in guineas was a win-win. It either mislead someone, or appealed to their snobbery, Hyacinth Bucket-style.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Dec 2021, 9:57 pm   #2631
joebog1
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 2,704
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

So Craig,
is that an updraught, downdraft or side draught , cause it really does sound like this bloke is "blowin in the wind". We have all said it more than once, There's one born every minute, and they are all audio experts.

Joe
joebog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2021, 4:02 am   #2632
Refugee
Dekatron
 
Refugee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 5,582
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

They are creeping closer to the power station over in the states.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/t...snakes.381140/
Refugee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2021, 5:43 am   #2633
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 23,253
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers View Post
Next question was at £$190 why are they not supplied pre-broken-in? After all a break-in rack with 500 fuses would be straightforward, connected in either parallel or series to a power amp playing into a dummy load for two weeks. No answer.
This is a crucial piece of psychology. If audiophiles could buy pre-broken-in items, then they could swap them with the original part and keep swapping, looking for the promoted improvement to be immediate. As all these improvements are always touted as being very significant (revelatory, life changing, and worth the price many times over) then they ought to be pretty obvious at the moment of immediate comparison.

Oops. People would start seeing the emperor's wardrobe.

By insisting that improvements, large though they are, only come in progressively over a long break-in period, then that gives time for the listener's mind to convince itself that it must be hearing the suggested improvement.

All very clever, and if it wasn't a process that evolved naturally, then it was concocted by a particularly machiavellian mind.

Without the burn-in claims, the claims of large improvements would be stripped bare for all to see (and take the P).

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2021, 9:02 am   #2634
bluepilot
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Duffort, Gers, France
Posts: 716
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
If audiophiles could buy pre-broken-in items, then they could swap them with the original part and keep swapping, looking for the promoted improvement to be immediate.
Every amplifier is different. If you broke it in on one it would have completely the wrong characteristics for a different one. You have to break it in on the amplifier you intend to use it with for it to work properly.
__________________
Stuart

The golden age is always yesterday - Asa Briggs
bluepilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2021, 9:25 am   #2635
Craig Sawyers
Dekatron
 
Craig Sawyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 5,164
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Shakespeare seemed to generate a quote for everything. From Macbeth, of relevance to being able to fool your perceptions:

"Is this a dagger which I see before me,
The handle toward my hand? Come, let me clutch thee.
I have thee not, and yet I see thee still.
Art thou not, fatal vision, sensible
To feeling as to sight? or art thou but
A dagger of the mind, a false creation,
Proceeding from the heat-oppressed brain?..."

Craig
__________________
Doomed for a certain term to walk the night
Craig Sawyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2021, 9:47 am   #2636
Diabolical Artificer
Dekatron
 
Diabolical Artificer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sleaford, Lincs. UK.
Posts: 7,813
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Lewis Carol had human foibles down pat, we are complicated beings.

“Alice laughed. 'There's no use trying,' she said. 'One can't believe impossible things.'

I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!”
__________________
Curiosity hasn't killed this cat...so far.
Diabolical Artificer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2021, 10:55 am   #2637
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 23,253
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Behind it all, animating it all from behind a curtain, is probably the spirit of Barnum.

"Pay no attention to the avarice hinted at by the product pricing"

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2021, 1:38 pm   #2638
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I am waiting for the UK 13A version.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2021, 5:54 pm   #2639
Craig Sawyers
Dekatron
 
Craig Sawyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 5,164
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

To you, sir - £130. So ten pounds per amp.

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/synergi...nd-uk-13a-fuse

Note that it is a "Quantum Fuse", and so exists in a state which is uncertain until you turn something on. Then the state collapses into blown, or not.

Craig
__________________
Doomed for a certain term to walk the night
Craig Sawyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Dec 2021, 6:43 pm   #2640
The Philpott
Dekatron
 
The Philpott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,185
Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Futureshop- another example of attention seeking- note that you can buy speaker cables from them for £4, or for £5,000 or for £29,000. Presumably now attention has been grabbed the intention is that once you've stopped laughing you buy a pair for £50..i'm not playing that game, but i know people who would.

I admit to being amused that the fuse featured has not a single micron of precious metals....Silver gilt end caps would surely attract more idiots, at minimal cost.

Dave
The Philpott is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:36 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2024, Paul Stenning.