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Old 12th Aug 2022, 2:48 pm   #1
bionicmerlin
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Default Can you help identifying these lamps

Picked these up at a radio rally. For £1 . Ideal display item I thought. I have no idea what they are for. Sign type yes but I’m still no wiser but I’m sure someone will know .
They are rated at 14 Volts Andy
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 2:52 pm   #2
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

Another picture
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 6:32 pm   #3
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

Any sign of a patent number?
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 6:53 pm   #4
bionicmerlin
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

Graham. Probably easier if I post a picture .Andy
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 7:08 pm   #5
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

-Thinks- how long have those highway maintenance vehicles with the illuminated arrows at the rear been in existence? These lamps (given the powdery coating) seem to be intended for good visibility but low glare.

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Old 12th Aug 2022, 7:51 pm   #6
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

I looked up the patents and they date from the 1920's. No useful info though, they just relate to manufacturing techniques.

Googling "Sign Lamps" suggests they're used in fairgrounds etc.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 8:01 pm   #7
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

They have a bit of a fairground look about them.
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Old 13th Aug 2022, 12:59 am   #8
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

Thanks everyone for your replies. I never thought about fairgrounds. But so far that’s probably a good suggestion. Unless someone knows different. Andy
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Old 13th Aug 2022, 7:29 pm   #9
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

14V suggests they could / would have been used on a 12V lead acid accumulator fed system.
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Old 13th Aug 2022, 8:23 pm   #10
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

Ten of them would need 140v, so 120v would under run them a bit for longer life. 20 in a string would need 280v and might get under run at 240.

They may well have been used in hard to access place and subject to vibration, also on-off sequence switching. I'm thinking of Blackpool illuminations or travelling fair rides/sideshows. Simple parallel connection would work, but with lots on the go, currents add up and wiring losses get bad quickly.

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Old 13th Aug 2022, 10:22 pm   #11
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

14 volt lamps were often used in signs and adverts, a suitable number in series to suit the supply voltage.
More commonly S.E.S. though and not as illustrated.

Perhaps these were for military use, deep red light to preserve night vision.
Red lights are often used aboard ships and sometimes in barracks to preserve night vision.
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Old 13th Aug 2022, 11:16 pm   #12
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

I have manufactured electronic versions and indeed repaired many mechanical lamp controllers for fair grounds and the your lamps are not suitable for that use.
We used 240v incandescent 15W lamps, 25W on primary colours to balance the brightness.
The supplies from the Chippperfields generator was 200Volts DC +- 20% ... ish, (depending on the grade of heating fluid used to run the Diesel generator) and the lamps were Signal lamps as in British Rail.
Interesting stuff, switching thyristors off when working DC. There were no dedicated SGS gated thyristors at the time.
Good fun but very dangerous!
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Old 14th Aug 2022, 12:41 am   #13
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

Now I thought as soon as I put a picture up . Someone was going to say straight away I know what they are for. It’s proving a bit of a challenge.
Thankyou all so far Andy
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Old 14th Aug 2022, 7:06 am   #14
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

We may never know for what purpose these were manufactured. Quite possibly only small numbers made for some specialist purpose.

I do not recall anything similar in old lamp catalogues.

Night vision preservation is a possibility. Internal lighting of a ship, land vehicle, or aircraft perhaps. Most were 24/28 volts, but 12/14 volt systems existed.

Wartime lighting of the entranceway or foyer of a cinema or theatre perhaps, in order that customers eyes might adjust before exiting into the blacked out street.

Interior lighting of a bus, coach, or railway carriage perhaps, wartime again. 12/14 volts not common but sometimes used.

Emergency lighting of a tram perhaps. Normal tram car lighting was 110/115/120 volt lamps worked five in series on the traction current. Emergency lighting was a few small 12 volt lamps worked of a battery, operated automatically if the traction current failed.
In wartime the main lights were replaced with either neon bulbs or with deep blue glass bulbs. That meant that any failure of the traction current would light the emergency lights, much too bright for blackout conditions. Dim red bulbs perhaps fitted ?

Yet another possibility would be red "safelights" for photographic developing. These were normally for mains voltage. In the absence of an electricity supply a small oil lamp with a deep red globe was used. 12/14 volt safelights perhaps used from a vehicle battery.

Perhaps even used in a Church bell tower, in order that the priest or vicar may signal to the bell ringers when to start/stop.
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Old 14th Aug 2022, 7:34 am   #15
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

For many years there was an unused scintillating electric sign above the entrance door to what had been a printers in Garrett Lane Earlsfield. The sign simply said PRINTING. A massive hank of lead covered cables disappeared through a hole in the wall. These must have been connected to the motor driven switch.
It had a number of top pip bulbs still in place together with some of the smaller 15W sign lamps. When I last looked about 20 years ago it had vanished.
I presume these would have been 230V but as BG says they were more likely to have been used on a vehicle. John.
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Old 14th Aug 2022, 7:57 am   #16
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

Christmas trees of an appropriate size? Festive strings?

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Old 14th Aug 2022, 9:44 am   #17
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

Look like 'golf ball' lamps to me. Either mobile, numerical display panel or chaser type displays given the 14v rating.

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Old 19th Aug 2022, 6:25 pm   #18
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
Ten of them would need 140v, so 120v would under run them a bit for longer life. 20 in a string would need 280v and might get under run at 240.

They may well have been used in hard to access place and subject to vibration, also on-off sequence switching. I'm thinking of Blackpool illuminations or travelling fair rides/sideshows. Simple parallel connection would work, but with lots on the go, currents add up and wiring losses get bad quickly.

David
Blackpool illuminations used 250 volt pygmy lamps.

And went rapidly downhill when these were phased out in favour of leds
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 4:46 am   #19
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

Well the box saying "Sign Type", is probably a good 'indication' of what they might have been for. And a quick Google found this old Osram catalogue with Sign Lamps in:

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/...01938%20UK.pdf
- although seem to be mostly higher mains etc voltage ones
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Old 21st Aug 2022, 9:25 am   #20
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Default Re: Can you help identifying these lamps

Very interesting.

The 14V ones fail short-circuit then to aid location when wired in series.
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