HMV 2312 / Garrard 3000 repair - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Roisin Fulcher · 6th Apr 2020, 1:58 pm

Hi,
I recently got a HMV 2312 stereogram that I am restoring. It has a Garrard turntable inside it (I reckon it’s a 3000 although it doesn’t have the model number on it). I’ve restored it and the turntable works and the arm drops and returns automatically.

However, when I stack records on the automatic spindle and select ‘auto’, the bottom record drops fine but the other records lay tilted on the spindle. They are tilted and block the arm from dropping to the record. If I stop the arm from knocking into them, the auto spindle eventually straightens them up. Basically, I think the auto spindle release mechanism is slower than the auto arm and I need it to drop the bottom record and straighten the others up before the arm tries to drop onto the record playing. Any help at all would be appreciated.

I’m also planning to wire in new speakers if anyone has any suggestions of good models that would work.

Again, any help on the automatic spindle mechanism would be hugely helpful!

Thanks!

Station X · 6th Apr 2020, 2:19 pm

Forgive me if I'm being thick, but isn't there an overarm to keep the record stack at 90 degrees to the spindle?

BRASSBITS · 6th Apr 2020, 2:35 pm

A photo of the deck will help.

Edward Huggins · 6th Apr 2020, 8:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roisin Fulcher

Hi,
I recently got a HMV 2312 stereogram.

I’m also planning to wire in new speakers if anyone has any suggestions of good models that would work.

Again, any help on the automatic spindle mechanism would be hugely helpful!

Thanks!

Why would you want to wire in new speakers - are they faulty? It's highly unlikely that replacement speakers, even if you could easily source them, would improve the sound. Don't try to make this somthing it can never be.....

BTW The specifed Autochanger for this model is a Garrard 3000.

Roisin Fulcher · 7th Apr 2020, 3:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station X

Forgive me if I'm being thick, but isn't there an overarm to keep the record stack at 90 degrees to the spindle?

Hi Graham. Yes, there is but it still doesn’t hold it in place. I’ll post a picture now too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRASSBITS

A photo of the deck will help.

Hi. I’ve attached a photo of the deck empty and then one of it when a record has dropped and the record stacked is tilted. You can see that it tilts down towards the arm and so gets in the way.

Roisin Fulcher · 7th Apr 2020, 3:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

Why would you want to wire in new speakers - are they faulty? It's highly unlikely that replacement speakers, even if you could easily source them, would improve the sound. Don't try to make this something it can never be...

BTW The specified Autochanger for this model is a Garrard 3000.

Yes, they are faulty. Sound only comes from one of the two speakers. I am going to take a look at the wiring and replace the stylus before I replace any speakers and try to do my best with what is already here.

BRASSBITS · 7th Apr 2020, 5:02 pm

ok Can you post a picture of the auto spindle sideways on from the front with no records on it

Station X · 7th Apr 2020, 5:18 pm

I think the over arm should be nearer to the spindle. As it stands it's bound to tilt the stack.

Edward Huggins · 7th Apr 2020, 5:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roisin Fulcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

Why would you want to wire in new speakers - are they faulty? It's highly unlikely that replacement speakers, even if you could easily source them, would improve the sound. Don't try to make this something it can never be...

BTW The specified Autochanger for this model is a Garrard 3000.

Yes, they are faulty. Sound only comes from one of the two speakers. I am going to take a look at the wiring and replace the stylus before I replace any speakers and try to do my best with what is already here.

Speakers very rarely fail. Is the fault on both Radio and Gram? If so, it's more likely that there's a fault in the amplifier channel driving that speaker. It's a common fault on this unit.

Roisin Fulcher · 7th Apr 2020, 5:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRASSBITS

ok Can you post a picture of the auto spindle sideways on from the front with no records on it

Here’s a picture of it side on.

Roisin Fulcher · 7th Apr 2020, 5:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station X

I think the over arm should be nearer to the spindle. As it stands it's bound to tilt the stack.

Would I need to rotate the arm on its own spindle then? As that’s where it sits when the spindle drops into place.

ms660 · 7th Apr 2020, 6:23 pm

I agree.

The over arm might have been forced to the right against the will of the pin on its shaft, that would mean the angle between the over arm and the pin would be out.

Lawrence.

Audio1950 · 7th Apr 2020, 6:27 pm

The overarm is either bent, or is not going down far enough to rest on the stack of records. With no records on the turntable, put the overarm in the centre position, make sure it is fully down, then measure the distance from the turntable at various points along the length of the overarm. It should lie at a dead 90 degrees to the centre spindle.

Michael Maurice · 7th Apr 2020, 7:10 pm

I concur with Audio1950 that the overarm may be bent.

Do not fit modern speakers to a unit of this age, they tend to be inefficient compared to older units

Roisin Fulcher · 7th Apr 2020, 7:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roisin Fulcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

Why would you want to wire in new speakers - are they faulty? It's highly unlikely that replacement speakers, even if you could easily source them, would improve the sound. Don't try to make this something it can never be...

BTW The specified Autochanger for this model is a Garrard 3000.

Yes, they are faulty. Sound only comes from one of the two speakers. I am going to take a look at the wiring and replace the stylus before I replace any speakers and try to do my best with what is already here.

Speakers very rarely fail. Is the fault on both Radio and Gram? If so, it's more likely that there's a fault in the amplifier channel driving that speaker. It's a common fault on this unit.

Hi Edward. The radio isn’t working yet I have to fix the tuner. I’ll have a look at the amplifier channel and see if I can identify the problem there! Thanks!

Roisin Fulcher · 7th Apr 2020, 7:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audio1950

The overarm is either bent, or is not going down far enough to rest on the stack of records. With no records on the turntable, put the overarm in the centre position, make sure it is fully down, then measure the distance from the turntable at various points along the length of the overarm. It should lie at a dead 90 degrees to the centre spindle.

I reckon that it is bent. It isn’t going in far enough towards the centre spindle. It seems to be at 90 degrees to the spindle and parallel with the turntable though. Is there any way of getting it to go in further towards the centre?

Roisin Fulcher · 7th Apr 2020, 8:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms660

I agree.

The over arm might have been forced to the right against the will of the pin on its shaft, that would mean the angle between the over arm and the pin would be out.

Lawrence.

Hi Lawrence. This is what I reckon has happened. Is there any strategic way to fix it?

BRASSBITS · 7th Apr 2020, 8:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roisin Fulcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRASSBITS

ok Can you post a picture of the auto spindle sideways on from the front with no records on it

Here’s a picture of it side on.

The spindle looks like it is in the wrong position. The part of the spindle where the mech parts stick out needs to be at the seven o clock position, however the clip that holds the platter on and also locks the spindle in position is missing.

Station X · 7th Apr 2020, 9:42 pm

A picture from a similar item on eBay shows the over arm much closer to the spindle. The OP will need to check what's been bent.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...84879&_sacat=0

ms660 · 7th Apr 2020, 9:45 pm

Ditto again with Graham.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roisin Fulcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms660

I agree.

The over arm might have been forced to the right against the will of the pin on its shaft, that would mean the angle between the over arm and the pin would be out.

Lawrence.

Hi Lawrence. This is what I reckon has happened. Is there any strategic way to fix it?

Last time I had an over arm out of kilter was man-------y moons ago when I was in the trade, I cant' remember the make of the deck or the method I used to fix it but the pin might have been in it's slot and the over arm was then forced back to where it should have been, as said I can't remember for sure, whatever you do don't force anything that's likely to break.

There might have been a post with the same problem on here not too long ago with a method......anyone?

Other's might have other observations, but apart from the orientation of the center spindle and the missing clip mentioned by BRASSBITS the way it looks to me in the photo is that the arm isn't over far enough....unless the photo is deceiving my eyes, which is always a possibility....having said that there are several photo's on the web including that of a manual that show the over arm further over to the center than the OP's is.

Lawrence.

6th Apr 2020, 1:58 pm	#1
Roisin Fulcher Triode Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Ashbourne, County Meath, Ireland Posts: 13	HMV 2312 / Garrard 3000 repair Hi, I recently got a HMV 2312 stereogram that I am restoring. It has a Garrard turntable inside it (I reckon it’s a 3000 although it doesn’t have the model number on it). I’ve restored it and the turntable works and the arm drops and returns automatically. However, when I stack records on the automatic spindle and select ‘auto’, the bottom record drops fine but the other records lay tilted on the spindle. They are tilted and block the arm from dropping to the record. If I stop the arm from knocking into them, the auto spindle eventually straightens them up. Basically, I think the auto spindle release mechanism is slower than the auto arm and I need it to drop the bottom record and straighten the others up before the arm tries to drop onto the record playing. Any help at all would be appreciated. I’m also planning to wire in new speakers if anyone has any suggestions of good models that would work. Again, any help on the automatic spindle mechanism would be hugely helpful! Thanks!

6th Apr 2020, 2:19 pm	#2
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,289	Re: HMV 2312 / Garrard 3000 repair Forgive me if I'm being thick, but isn't there an overarm to keep the record stack at 90 degrees to the spindle? __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

6th Apr 2020, 2:35 pm	#3
BRASSBITS Hexode Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 364	Re: HMV 2312 / Garrard 3000 repair A photo of the deck will help.

7th Apr 2020, 5:02 pm	#7
BRASSBITS Hexode Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 364	Re: HMV 2312 / Garrard 3000 repair ok Can you post a picture of the auto spindle sideways on from the front with no records on it

7th Apr 2020, 5:18 pm	#8
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,289	Re: HMV 2312 / Garrard 3000 repair I think the over arm should be nearer to the spindle. As it stands it's bound to tilt the stack. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

7th Apr 2020, 6:23 pm	#12
ms660 Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 13,454	Re: HMV 2312 / Garrard 3000 repair I agree. The over arm might have been forced to the right against the will of the pin on its shaft, that would mean the angle between the over arm and the pin would be out. Lawrence.

7th Apr 2020, 6:27 pm	#13
Audio1950 Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Whittlesey, near Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 3,763	Re: HMV 2312 / Garrard 3000 repair The overarm is either bent, or is not going down far enough to rest on the stack of records. With no records on the turntable, put the overarm in the centre position, make sure it is fully down, then measure the distance from the turntable at various points along the length of the overarm. It should lie at a dead 90 degrees to the centre spindle.

7th Apr 2020, 7:10 pm	#14
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,225	Re: HMV 2312 / Garrard 3000 repair I concur with Audio1950 that the overarm may be bent. Do not fit modern speakers to a unit of this age, they tend to be inefficient compared to older units __________________ Forum Moderator http://www.michaelmauricerepairs.co.uk/

7th Apr 2020, 9:42 pm	#19
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,289	Re: HMV 2312 / Garrard 3000 repair A picture from a similar item on eBay shows the over arm much closer to the spindle. The OP will need to check what's been bent. https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...84879&_sacat=0 __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.