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Clubs, Groups and Societies For discussions about various clubs, groups and societies relating to our hobbies, such as the BVWS (incl NVCF), BATC, RSGB, APTS, CLPGS, THG, TCC etc. This is NOT an official forum for any of these organisations.

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Old 18th Sep 2018, 4:32 pm   #41
ajgriff
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

Just shows what an educational site this is, as I now know what a herpatologist does. Some say herpetologist apparently.

Alan
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 5:52 pm   #42
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

You could rename it the BVWS-MKII

Magnet fishing seems to be taking off in some parts, a small tweek to a piece of rope and hey presto.

The BVWS website could do with a re-vamp for sure, the 2014 video is so yesterday, the twitter page does not say a lot judging by it's content, the facebook page doesn't look that much better either, don't need a brainstorm to work that one out, the shot by shot photos, what's that all about, a rolling banner approach would be better, the website certainly isn't an eye catcher, I think it should be, probably a good effort for then but not for now or for the future.

My wife looked at the home page from a first impressions point of view, she does a fair bit of internet selling, same verdict I'm afraid...Zzzzzzzz.

The problem with a lot of clubs etc is that most members will tow the party line as it were, they'll spend time slapping each other on the back to maintain the status quo, hence any change, if any, is slow to come and when they finally wake up its a bit too late....But hopefully not for the BVWS (or whatever it may turn out to be)

Adapt and survive to keep the interest alive.....Good luck.

Lawrence.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 7:31 pm   #43
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

I'm more than happy to help with a newbie day, and subject to work and family commitments, there would be no issue with me doing other stuff if needed.

My example of Harpenden and the NVCF was just to illustrate that, despite their being great events for those of us that are already members, what is there at these events to entice the younger generation through the door?

Im not saying that we should become a group of hooded youfs, or anything like that, but if we all take a serious step back, and look at these two flagship events, the format hasn't really changed in my memory, in fact, from memory, there used to be a seperate hall at Harpenden that used to hold a talk or exhibition?

DOnt get me wrong, I am not knocking anything that is already being done - just think that there needs to be a focus on the future of the society as a whole - it would be very interesting to see what the trend is age wise within the society - I would think it is steadily increasing

Current and previous committee members are to be applauded for their service and dedication, the committee of the present day and future are the ones that have the hardest task.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 7:55 pm   #44
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

Right then, plenty of heat generated. Perhaps I can contribute an idea. It goes like this. In this country, there are many, many old people who are quite lonely and there are many, many young parents who are run ragged by their offspring. It would be very good if the old ones could meet with the young ones in a meaningful way, meantime the middle-aged ones could have an hour of easy parenting. What I'm proposing is a very local event where a church, or some other organisation with a hall to contribute, allows someone keen (a BVWS member?) to set up a Saturday Afternoon Pop-Up Museum. The old ones with interesting old things with some play (or at least fascination) value bring it along and set it up on Saturday morning. The parents bring the kids along on Saturday afternoon and they ogle the marvels of anything from a clockwork gramophone to a hand-cranked sewing machine, taking in everything from electric clocks to old tin-plate toy trains along the way. Anything, in fact, which is suitably interesting that some older person would like to bring along. The old ones then spend a grand afternoon explaining their old tech to the young ones and letting them have a go if they seem sensible enough, and all of a sudden you've got lots of older people who are no longer lonely, and lots of young people who have a new interest in old tackle of whatever description, and a working knowledge of old geezers, both of which would be most useful for them to have. There's nothing but hard work to be gained for the organiser but it would, I think, be a most useful thing. Get someone to bring along an old video camera and let the kids "read the news" and email the video to their parent(s). Wind up the old gramophone and teach them a passable fox-trot. Have them call each other on old clockwork-dial telephones connected to a 1980s office exchange. These are the things which will bring old people out of their shells and get young people interested in something other than computer games. My friend has a son who is 10. I loaned out an oval of track and a Hornby O gauge clockwork train for his birthday party in case of rain (this is Cornwall!) and we now have the youngest collector of pre-war tinplate trains in the county. He's also very much into Mamod steam engines because I gave him a traction engine for Christmas (when he was only 9). Toys with fire in their bellies? Yes please. So much less "wet" than computer games. There is a willing audience. What we need to do is put in the work to reach them. It's not as if the people putting on the "pop-up museum" don't get anything in return for their hard work. It's just that there's no real money to be made out of this idea (unless you profit from the tea and pasties on sale).
There we are then, that's better. I haven't ridden that hobby horse for ages.
Rob.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 7:59 pm   #45
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

My own view regarding fresh, younger (?) members is simply, 'what will be will be'. The best, mostly expertly orchestrated PR and advertising campaign can only be successful if there's some kind of synergy amongst potential new members to align the BVWS with. You can't 'make' people become interested in old radios if they're just not bothered about that stuff. As has been said, the culture these days just does not provide a good fit with spending hours fault finding and repairing a dirty old worm ridden wooden radio found at a car boot sale. Of course, there will be new people come along who somehow have developed a passion for old radios (TVs, video, audio, whatever), be it by seeing one somewhere or a chance meeting with someone else who enjoys the hobby. But as a professional PR person I just cannot see a viable means of attracting lots of new blood to join the BVWS. Members can, as individuals, introduce younger relations and friends and hopefully they will become interested enough to take part, but other than that, 'what will be will be' in my opinion.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 2:01 pm   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ms660 View Post
The BVWS website could do with a re-vamp for sure, the 2014 video is so yesterday, the twitter page does not say a lot judging by it's content, the facebook page doesn't look that much better either, don't need a brainstorm to work that one out, the shot by shot photos, what's that all about, a rolling banner approach would be better, the website certainly isn't an eye catcher, I think it should be, probably a good effort for then but not for now or for the future.
If anyone wants to volunteer to take over the role of webmaster they are more than welcome to contact the committee. Or just volunteer their services and new design ideas.

In reality as with many such groups there are a small number of us who do all the work, while prioritising work, family end everything else. Right now I scarcely have time to update it with current info, let alone redesign it.

Endless criticism does nothing to encourage me to do any more, if anything it's the opposite effect. I suspect other committee members feel the same too, when their roles are criticised with no offers of help to change things. There is a difference between criticism and constructive criticism...
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 2:24 pm   #47
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

Paul,
Well said!

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Old 19th Sep 2018, 3:04 pm   #48
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

I'm not saying that I agree with ms660 because I haven't checked out the things he/she criticises. So I'm neutral on that score. However I don't think it's a pre-requisite that people should only be able to 'critique' something if they themselves are willing and able to help. In the perfect world that would be nice, but look at this way, someone may be in a very good, knowledgeable position to offer what may be excellent advice, but may not be in a good position to do something about it themselves. So if they didn't speak up we would be less wise, we may be missing an important point. That's the logic of the situation, ignoring the emotional aspect. Of course no-one, myself included, likes to be criticised for doing something for free for the enjoyment of others.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 3:19 pm   #49
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

As I said, there is criticism and there is constructive criticism. The latter is a lot more helpful than the former.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 4:53 pm   #50
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

The largest pictorial on the home page is a video dated 2014!! If it's a criticism then it's a fact as well.

Yesterday, to be fair in this, I asked my wife who is quite up to speed to look at the home page, she more or less came to the same conclusion as me, it could do with changing "It's rather bland" were some of the words she used.

I do not have the skills to do web design/mastering but if I did I would change it.

I have nothing to do with the BVWS as in I'm not a member, so my views are from the outside looking on, a bit like a punter looking in a shop window, that to me, looks like it's closed for business with that 2014 video as its prominent feature, moreover the music to that video is not very representative given the chronological spread that vintage radio encompasses (2LO/early BBC to Radio 1 1920's to 1960's/70's for instance) If that's a criticism I can't help that, I just see it as an observation, that's what people do, observe and decide.

To me if the BVWS want's to recruit younger blood then the BVWS will have to cater for a wider remit of stuff, and make it more or less instantly known on the home page if only as a hook to get them interested in the more traditional vintage stuff if that's what's wanted.

Further to that and in my defence I did imply as a constructive idea in post#16 to run a youtube channel with a view to showing the younger ones how too etc because I guess for many they would not know how and that might be a barrier for any further perusal of interest but if there is no appetite or resources for that from within then I think the KT boundary's in sight for the BVWS as it stands, is that a criticism or just an observation of what's down the road?

So.….Constructive....

Re-vamp the home page to make things a bit more appealing to a wider audience.....Get 'em through the door is the name of the game.

Replace the rotating photo shots with a full screen width changing photo stream showing what's covered eg receivers, radiograms, record player, military and owt else etc, make them clickable and do something, ie: directs to another page that expands on the subject of the photo selected.

Do some YouTube videos for how too, a couple of free ones from the home page or whatever as enticers, the rest only for paid up members, get someone who knows what they are doing, possibly radio qualified to star in them, not some errr ahhh mmm what I meant was.

Get some conversation going on BVWS's Twitter and Facebook pages, even something slightly contentious is better than nowt, it shows that someone is still alive!

I heard that The BVWS sell capacitors...Not according the home page so far as I can see....!!Look we sell bits!! (that's a constructive comment by the way)

Make it known the BVWS is inclusive..."Our Society relies on new membership...………. If you have an interest in collecting and restoring old equipment, or just looking at or listening to old radios, televisions or Hi-Fi, then why not consider becoming a BVWS member."

Maybe "We welcome all, young and old, in-betweens, all genders etc" no "Why not consider" more like "Then Join now" that sort of thing.

So there's a few ideas for starters.

Finally I get the impression (sorry folks but I do) that there are some folks on here that are firmly stuck in we won the war, steam, auntie Beeb, auntie Rover and old Philips atlases, I feel sure I'm not the only one to get that impression, I suspect some would be recruits to the forum do as well.....time to move on for the BVWS in a constructive way me thinks.

Good luck whicheverways.

Lawrence.

Last edited by ms660; 19th Sep 2018 at 5:04 pm. Reason: grammar
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 5:26 pm   #51
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

Not a member but I looked in quite a while ago and again recently and it's fair to say that it doesn't change much.

I do agree with Lawrence, it's not much of an invitation and I really don't think changing the name will change the number of new members.

I have commented previously regarding the ambiguous statement about what the membership pack consists of. Does it include all the items listed as free to members?

I note the sample edition of The Bulletin is still from 2008. Has it not changed in the last decade?

I agree with others who say that young people do not relate to old Valve technology. It's much the same in the classic car world. Interest in prewar cars is diminishing and younger folk (if they attend) are bringing along what I consider to be modern cars.

It's also true that modern tech' and modern cars are not "tinkered" with in the same way as we used to when we were that age. Also, young people have grown up to throw things away rather than fix them. They want the latest thing, not obsolete tech'. If something stops working you bin it and get something shiny and new.

It's a changing world populated with people with a very different mindset.
I hope the BVWS survives and indeed all the prewar car clubs too, but I can't see them growing I'm afraid, especially as we oldies fall off the perch.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 6:26 pm   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nebogipfel View Post
/.../
I agree with others who say that young people do not relate to old Valve technology. /.../ Also, young people have grown up to throw things away rather than fix them. They want the latest thing, not obsolete tech'. If something stops working you bin it and get something shiny and new./.../
Its a rather not true statements
take a look for # of users on diyaudio- 430 000
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 6:26 pm   #53
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

Just looking at some figures out of interest.

This forum currently has 1,827 active members. Active members are those who have visited in the last 60 days, regardless of what they did here.

3,175 members have made 10 or more posts, though of course some of these could have been years ago.

Total members is 21,544 (that's everyone who has registered other than those banned, retired or RIP), but that is not a useful figure. Some of these could have signed up many years ago and never posted.

The BVWS currently has between 1,200 and 1,300 members (I don't have the exact figure). These would obviously have chosen to renew and pay, or would be complimentary or honorary members. I think the peak was around 1,800 but I'm not sure.

The Facebook group for this forum https://www.facebook.com/groups/59466401554/ has 795 members.

The BVWS Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/BritishVintageWirelessSociety/ has 525 followers.

On Facebook a page is more of a place to show and promote whereas a group is more interactive, so these don't compare directly.

From the information available to non-members the Golborne forum has 443 members and Vrat 2.0 forum has 129 members. I am surprised those aren't higher. Radio Museum claims to have 16,859 members but figure is probably about as meaningless as the 21,544 members figure here.

These figures can obviously be interpreted in different ways depending on what you are trying to prove. There is nothing that is directly comparable.

It does seem that people prefer the more immediate interaction of a forum, and that will inevitably be true more for younger people who have grown up with the internet and smartphones etc. Most online stuff is also free of course.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 6:39 pm   #54
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

A couple more:

The total number of articles in BVWS bulletins to date is 1,652 according to the index on the BVWS website. This is major articles only, not letters, from the Chair, meeting minutes, annual accounts and other routine stuff.

The total number of threads in this forum is currently 86,620. If even just 5% of those contained useful information, the forum is well ahead.

However articles in the bulletin are completed restorations and projects, or fully researched historical accounts etc. Whereas forum threads are discussions which are often unresolved.

The Success Stories section here (which by definition should be completed restorations etc) contains 1,522 threads.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 7:00 pm   #55
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Its a rather not true statements
take a look for # of users on diyaudio- 430 000
I would guess DIY audio is as much about listening to music and how much better valve amps are supposed to sound.


I'm not saying that hobbies don't continue to be popular. There are still quite a few people around who grew up in the 50's 60's and 70's. I'm saying that the age profile tend to be older people who are fixers/tinkerers.
I have been involved in classic cars all my adult life and it is without question that the people involved tend to have plenty of grey hair. Young people are still interested in cars but they haven't grown up fixing them like previous generations. I attend Austin Seven meetings and the majority are old blokes, in fact I'm one of the youngsters in my sixties.


Interest in old things for lots of us older folk is motivated and inspired by nostalgia. The stuff that tugs at our heart strings is very different to what motivates young people. My friends and I were working on cars after school. I bet you will not see that nowadays.

Just an observation
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 7:08 pm   #56
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I have commented previously regarding the ambiguous statement about what the membership pack consists of. Does it include all the items listed as free to members?
I will clarify that with the membership secretary and amend as appropriate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nebogipfel View Post
I note the sample edition of The Bulletin is still from 2008. Has it not changed in the last decade?
It's changed a lot actually, style more than content. One from last year (with Alex's new style updates) would be good. I need to check them and see which best represents a "typical" bulletin. I will suggest to the rest of the committee.

Updating the video would be over to Alex to make a new one, and in reality one swapmeet/auction is very much like another when edited down to a couple of minutes of footage. Probably better if it wasn't dated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nebogipfel View Post
It's a changing world populated with people with a very different mindset.
I hope the BVWS survives and indeed all the prewar car clubs too, but I can't see them growing I'm afraid, especially as we oldies fall off the perch.
I tend to agree.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 8:17 pm   #57
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

The ability to tinker with old cars is now severely limited by regulation, testing, technology and insurance restrictions. The days when I could build and legally run a street racer on the road have gone.

But, restoring and repairing radios and TVs etc is thankfully still unregulated.
For this reason it is a hobby that could remain popular. There are still youngsters who take things apart and put them together again, with a little encouragement.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 8:39 pm   #58
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The point was made earlier that a lot of us grew up with the technology we collect and restore. A pre-war radio or TV is still recognisable for what it is, and can still be persuaded to work, albeit not "plug and play".
A young person today may have limited exposure to modern equipment, much of which is deemed unrepairable and throwaway, but not the history, and certainly not the financial constraints that engendered our make do and mend mentality.
There will always be those who look back and think, what's that and how does (did) it work but they're submerged in a sea of information nowadays, no need to join a club, just pick up your smartphone. Yes, them again.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 9:38 pm   #59
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Default Re: Changing the BVWS

A change in name is not needed, the BVWS is not a confectionery bar.
We are adults and we know what it stands for.

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Old 20th Sep 2018, 8:52 am   #60
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I agree with Paul Sherwin.
+1

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