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Old 15th Sep 2020, 5:04 pm   #1
linescan87
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Default Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

Hi All,

Anyone recognise this CRT?
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 4:54 pm   #2
Leon Crampin
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

Possibly Cossor type 09D or 09J as used in their 339 oscilloscope.

I had one years ago, but I can't quite remember if the tube base had a spigot. The poor old 'scope died a mains-derived EHT transformer death.

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Old 19th Sep 2020, 5:10 pm   #3
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

The 09J is shown here, it looks to have a much more complex electrode structure.
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaj0253.htm

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Old 19th Sep 2020, 5:42 pm   #4
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon Crampin View Post
Possibly Cossor type 09D or 09J as used in their 339 oscilloscope.

I had one years ago, but I can't quite remember if the tube base had a spigot. The poor old 'scope died a mains-derived EHT transformer death.

Leon.
As did so many Cossor scopes.

My 1035 would sit happily all day while I was in the workshop, nip out for a pee and come back to a room full of transformer smoke - more than once.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 6:19 pm   #5
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

I've got one exactly like that one shown in the first post. I removed it from an ancient piece of monitoring equipment that was connected to a large Ruston gas engine that was being dismantled back in the 70s. I may have a picture of it somewhere on file, otherwise I'm going to have to go up into the loft and see if I can find it...the tube, that is - not the gas engine! I think mine has a larger screen than the one shown, looking more like a small early round TV tube. I also have the original mounting bracket and base connector with individual brass terminals for the wires, which are cotton covered and still connected to it. I may have a note of its make and type number written down somewhere in my notebook - I'll have a look later if I get time...save me rummaging in the loft!
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 7:16 pm   #6
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

Well, I've skimmed through a load of old photos and couldn't spot any pictures of it, but while doing so, reminded myself of all sorts of other old gear that I've photographed over the years. I then had a quick skim through an old note book and found some scribbled down notes that I made on it the last time I found it in the loft. Here is exactly what I'd noted down word for word complete with question marks - "Old glass CRT, Standard Telephone Ltd? 4050 BG (GE?) Made in England". If I find the tube next time I'm in the loft, I'll take a snap of it.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 7:50 pm   #7
Craig Sawyers
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

Hartley 13A?
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 8:04 pm   #8
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

I think that's far too big for a Hartley.

I also had one of those from the same place at the same time - sadly scrapped many years ago.

I say that mine has a larger screen, however, it could just be how the photo in the first post makes it look and it could be exactly the same tube type. Mine looks identical with the very visible deflection plates.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 8:06 pm   #9
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

The cossor 09D tube family is a true dual beam. There is a splitter wedge between the Y plates and the Y plate for each beam is single-ended driven, working against the splitter voltage.

It's easy to see this in the clear tube, it predates the use of dag to make a high voltage capacitor for a PDA. There isn't even a proper screen current return.

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Old 20th Sep 2020, 4:58 pm   #10
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

Hi to All,

have a look at the two clear glass small screen pre-war CRTs shown in the USA ETF Museum.

Certainly not the exact model shown in this thread, but quite close technology-wise. It would be interesting to know if phosphor type was P1 (green, oscilloscope) or P4 (white, TV)

http://www.earlytelevision.org/prewar_crts.html

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Old 20th Sep 2020, 5:58 pm   #11
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

Hi Lads,

Jhalphen, that first one on the ETF website looks very similar. I powered up the heaters from my bench power supply to until they where just visibly glowing (around 2 volts) and with my megger supplying H.T. can confirm it's got a green phosphor (sadly)..
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 6:13 pm   #12
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

I agree that the first one on the link in post #10 looks like 'our' tubes.

It also states Western Electric, which I seem to think connects with Standard Telephone Ltd, although that would be STC with the 'cable' bit added to the end of the name, which my tube didn't have. When I'd tried to research this tube before, I came up with nothing, due to the fact that there was no such name as just 'Standard Telephone', but the evidence on my tube would seem to prove otherwise. I do know that it dates to well before the war because there was a date of the 1930s above the door of the building that it was removed from and it was an original installation. It was in a large black metal box with very little (or nothing) in the way of controls on the front (from what I remember) so the 'scope was more of a monitor than a piece of test gear, but it was a very long time ago.

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Old 20th Sep 2020, 7:38 pm   #13
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

Right! So it had to be done (and I think you all knew I'd have to do it) - I've been up into the loft and managed to locate it much easier than I expected to.

I've now got to correct some previously incorrect information. I can't believe that my eyesight has improved since I last looked at this tube - perhaps the lighting is now better, but it is definitely 'STC Standard Telephone and Cable'.

See pictures below - excuse my loft carpet:-
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 10:07 pm   #14
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

Thank you Techman,

It certainly looks like we have a match!
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Old 21st Sep 2020, 12:30 pm   #15
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

STC 4050B CRT.
This is a real rareity. It is a gas filled tube, from early 1930's, which operates with a positive "grid" shield. The brilliance is controlled by varying the filament current. I have data sheets dated 1937 and 1946. I attach the 1937 version.
The 4050B-B was blue phosphor, D was green long and G green short. No white phosphor.
The 4050B replaced the earlier 4018A (CV1733) series, very similar.

These gas filled tubes, self focussing and high sensitivity for that time, had a short operating life, and were superceded by late 1930's by hard vacuum tubes, which gave much greater brilliance.

Cossor also made gas filled tubes,which oddly enough required a negative voltage on the grid. Used in the model 3332 oscilloscope of 1935, type 3297, single beam.

By 1938 we have the Cossor 3339 oscilloscope, using the hard vacuum split beam tube 09D (CV1518). Replaced by 1940 with the model 339, also using the 09D.
The D phosphor is short green. Other Cossor phosphor types were J for short blue and G for long persistence.

The Hartley 13A of early 1950's, seeming strangely obsolete, used the 09D originally, and then changed in an undocumented modification to Cossor flat face tube 89D.
Standard Telephones and Cables was originally the UK arm of Western Electric, which was the manufacturing arm of AT&T. After the breakup of AT&T in 1934, it became the British end of ITT. Made telephone exchanges, equipment, relays, strowger and I believe radios at Southgate. Undersea cables at North Woolwich. Valves and CRT at Footscray. They used the name Brimar to make US types valves for UK. (hence BRItishAMERican).
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File Type: pdf 4050B_STC1937.pdf (91.7 KB, 42 views)

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Old 21st Sep 2020, 8:28 pm   #16
linescan87
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Default Re: Identify Oscilloscope CRT?

Thanks for the information Bill, it looks like myself and Techman are the owners of rare crts. What should I do with it?
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