HMV 102 advice needed.

[Radio_Dave]

I've just got my hands on a HMV 102 and I'm concerned with the amount of wear on the worm drive into which the winding handle fits.

The cabinet is in good condition apart from corrosion on the brass corner protectors. Any ideas how to clean these up whilst doing as little damage possible to the black finish?

TIA
David

[Audio1950]

Does the spring wind up with no grinding noises? If so, I'd leave well alone. If there is any binding or sticking, then replace it. I can let you have another one if needed.

I think you will find that removing the corrosion, which is verdigris, will expose the brass underneath. Personally, I always strip them completely, polish the brass, (including the screws) and then apply three or four coats of "Brass Black" liquid, followed by a couple of coats of satin spray lacquer. Go to this site and search for "Brass Black"

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Birchwood...r=640122345940

[Radio_Dave]

Hi Barry, Yes unfortunately it does feel rough when winding. If you have a spare that you're happy to sell then please PM me how much you want for it. The motor is a 270D, but I'm sure you know that.

I've never heard of Brass Black but I'm going to look forward to trying it.

I've got another question. The auto brake has some sort of hard rubber wheel on it. Is it supposed to rotate?

Regards
David

[DonaldStott]

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

I've never heard of Brass Black but I'm going to look forward to trying it.

I've taken Barry's advice previously on my HMV 101 and can thoroughly recommend Brass Black - follow the instructions in Post #2 above.

[Audio1950]

Hi David,

I don't want anything for the gear, I'll never have a use for it. Send me a PM with name and address, and I'll get it the post for you. A rubber wheel on the autobrake Never come across that one! Can you post a picture of the brake?

Barry

Originally Posted by Radio_Dave

Hi Barry, Yes unfortunately it does feel rough when winding. If you have a spare that you're happy to sell then please PM me how much you want for it. The motor is a 270D, but I'm sure you know that.

I've never heard of Brass Black but I'm going to look forward to trying it.

I've got another question. The auto brake has some sort of hard rubber wheel on it. Is it supposed to rotate?

Regards
David

[Radio_Dave]

Thank you Barry, that's very kind of you, a PM will be with you shortly.

I've attached a picture of my "rubber wheel" below.

Regards
David

[Audio1950]

No, it shouldn't rotate. It's more of a buffer than a wheel, designed to take the "clicking" noise away as the arm pushes the actuating lever towards the centre of the turntable.

Barry

[Radio_Dave]

Thanks Barry, The rubber is rock solid. It shouldn't be too hard to make something up and replace it, but is it worth it?


Is there anything I need to service on the tone arm and soundbox?



Regards
David

[Audio1950]

I would leave it alone, you would never get replacement to fit as snugly as the present one, apart from the fact that it doesn't play a vital part in the machines' performance. I have various 102s with that autobrake, and all of them have the same hard disc. (in later versions, it was replaced by a solid metal attachment) Actually, I'm not convinced that those discs were rubber, something harder than that, maybe?

If the arm and soundbox are working well, then again, leave them alone. Some enthusiasts recommend digging the hardened rubber out of the insulator on the back of the soundbox and replacing it with modern flexible sealant, but having tried it, I found no appreciable difference in the sound, and the softness of the sealant made the soundbox too "floppy". It also looked very wrong, as there is longer that raised lip around the edge of the insulator.

Barry

[Radio_Dave]

I haven't removed the soundbox and I don't intend to but the rubber insulator does seem to be in great condition and is very soft. At the other end though I'm sure I can hear ball bearings rattling around, do these not need lubricating with something?

TIA
David

[Audio1950]

The only ball bearings in the arm/soundbox are the tiny ones in the sockets that the stylus bar swivels in, but they are too small to rattle, and if they were loose, the soundbox would sound terrible! There are ball bearings in the base of the arm, but again, so tightly packed that they couldn't rattle. I would check that there are no loose needles floating around down the internal horn.

[Radio_Dave]

I've just double checked and I can definitely hear ball bearing rattling around in the base of the tonearm as I turn it. It sounds like there's not a drop of lubricant in there.

Regards
David

[Audio1950]

Be very careful how you tackle this one! If you take the arm off, you'll see in the underside of the base a ring with two opposing slots. This holds all the ball bearings in place, but don't be tempted to undo it, because they will all fall out, and you'll need three or more hands to get it all together again. It may well have worked loose, so tightening the ring may stop the bearings rattling about. I don't know what sort of tool was used to tighten the ring originally, but a pair of long-nosed pliers fully open usually does the job.

[TonyDuell]

The normal way to assemble loose ball bearings is to stick them in place with grease or Vaseline, then if necessary flush out the grease with a suitable solvent. I've done that many times (although admittedly never on a tone arm like this).

There is an adjustable tool used to loosen and tighten the locking rings in camera lenses, such as :

https://www.gecko-cam.com/project/sp...-all-5-blades/

That might fit the locking ring (but is probably not worth getting unless you tinker with old cameras as well)

[Radio_Dave]

I couldn't get the locking ring to come out so rather than break something I dropped a few drops on engine oil into it. It's stopped the rattle and moves nice a smoothly now.

Regards
David

[Radio_Dave]

It's all cleaned up, back together and working perfectly. But how do I turn it down! (only joking). It's definitely louder than my only other gramophone, a Columbia 201.

In the end I didn't re-blacken the brass corners because I couldn't get the screws out. I've had to settle for spot cleaning the green corrosion away with a fiberglass pen. The result isn't perfect but I can live with it. It looks like genuine wear now instead of decay and neglect.

I learnt the hard way not to oil the auto brake. After cleaning the oil off it now works as intended.

I didn't clean and grease the mainspring but it winds and plays smoothly without any sticking or banging. I timed it and it runs for about 7 1/2 minutes which I hope is ok?

I even found the original key in the waste needle box. Honestly did they have to stick a picture of a key on a key?

Regards
David

[DonaldStott]

Absolutely superb job David - very well done!

"But how do I turn it down! (only joking)." - you put a sock in it of course!

The Rexine covering seems to be in really good condition considering the age of the gramophone and the "touched-up" brass corners do add an air of authenticity.

I've never come across an actual key before and have always assumed that they are as scarce as the proverbial hen's teeth!

Couple of questions of course: -

1. How did you clean the nickle - it really sparkles?

2. Where did you source the felt for the turntable mat?

I have three HMV gramophones of a similar age but none of my restorations are in this league.

[Radio_Dave]

I have to admit I didn't have to do much to it. All the chrome was in perfect condition. I just cleaned and polished it with a little 3 in 1 oil on a cloth. The felt mat is also original, as far as I can tell.

The rexine just had tiny amounts of wear which more or less disappeared after polishing it all with black boot polish.

I've worked out it was made in 1946, so I guess it's is quite a new one and may explain why it's in such good condition.

Regards
David

[dalgwcobl]

That's a very nice 102. Do you have the metal record tray as well? As well as putting a sock in it,you can always use soft, medium or loud needles. I find medium work well in my 101, and loud ones really do mean you can use one to hold a dance in a village hall! The louder the needle, of course, the higher the wear on the record. And only ever use a needle once.
The only thing to watch out for is 'modern' 78s from the late forties and fifties, such as Decca FFRR. They are really too highly modulated for acoustic sound boxes and can sound terrible. The records also wear out very quickly as they were never intended to be played on an acoustic sound box.

[Radio_Dave]

No Unfortunately I don't have the metal record tray but I'm keeping an eye on ebay.

I have only played Rock Around the Clock on it so far. Maybe I should dig out some different records!

Regards
David