Akai 1710 and 1719W mains cables - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Dorian27 · 14th Nov 2019, 5:12 pm

I have an Akai 1710 which has a 3 core mains cable and I have just purchased a 1719W which only has a 2 core mains cable should it be left like that or should I put a 3 core cable on it

dave walsh · 14th Nov 2019, 7:02 pm

I can't find anything about your latest find Dorian but why would you change anything

The bulk of more modern equipment doesn't have an earth so I'm guessing there are no concerns. Does it work?

There are often issues of safety re the much earlier AC/DC equipment but that shouldn't apply here I'm thinking

[You said you had a reasonable amount of experience with electronics at one point so I'm assuming you know what I mean about live chassis sets.]

Dave W

Dorian27 · 14th Nov 2019, 8:30 pm

Hi Dave W thanks for the reply. It is not a 1719W model, fingers too quick on the pad. It is a 1710W. I am fairly up on electrical items but not always sure. I just wondered why two similar models should have different mains cables.? Yes they both are working OK at the moment. Thanks again.

saxmaniac · 15th Nov 2019, 7:24 am

If it was mine I'd put 3 core cable on. You've got plenty of items at mains voltage attached to the chassis. I've got or owned 4 of these over the years and all were earthed

unitelex · 18th Nov 2019, 12:28 am

I recently repaired a 1720W which had a 2 core mains cable.
The main problem was electrolytic ageing causing imbalanced L+R audio.
The owner also mentioned some moderate hum problem and wanted it minimizing.
While working on it I also noticed some AC leakage to the chassis, which was not nice.
I tried swapping the live and neutral connections in the plug ( the cable had 2 brown wires IIRC so no polarity marking ) After swapping the hum was greatly reduced and the leakage to the chassis disappeared.
This set had signs that it might have spent some time in a damp garage. So I guessed the leakage was internal to the transformer and it needed to dry out.
I agree with Saxmaniac, it would be better with a 3 core mains cable.

Chris

dave walsh · 18th Nov 2019, 1:10 am

Based on direct experience Chris, you and Saxman have certainly put up a good "case" for an earth lead. I hadn't realised there could be leakage. This question chimes a little with the [AC/DC] Premier Radio Earthing thread. I mentioned there that those sort of sets didn't have an earth or polarity markings on the mains leads as they worked either way. It's not the same as an AC/DC arrangement though as that wasn't at all compatible with Tape Recorders with and their external inputs and outputs to microphones etc.

Dave W

winston_1 · 18th Nov 2019, 1:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorian27

Hi Dave W thanks for the reply.It is not a 1719W model fingers to quick on the pad .It is a 1710W .I am fearly up on electrical items but not always sure .I just wondered why two similar models should have different mains cables.Yes they both are working ok at the moment. Thanks again

Perhaps a prievous owner changed it.

julie_m · 18th Nov 2019, 4:04 pm

Is it possible the two machines were originally destined for different markets?

Perhaps the 2-wire one was meant for mainland Europe where they have many 2-pin plugs, and the 3-wire one was meant for the UK or Australia.

Restoration73 · 18th Nov 2019, 8:57 pm

Changes were due to market legislation. Initial markets e.g. US/Canada testing houses
UL/CSA would have been satisfied with 2 core fig 8 unsheathed flex, although Akai had
adjustable voltage selector. Any leakage which was not compatible with standards for
double insulated items, including single pole mains switch, and fig 8 cable, would not be
passed by VDE (Germany) and others, so this led to sheathed mains cable and double
pole mains switches. Of course when all equipment had a 3 core flex, it was sometimes
necessary to leave the earth wire floating to avoid hum loops.

saxmaniac · 19th Nov 2019, 9:05 am

There's no way these could be considered double insulated. The comments on leaky caps and damp in mains transformners says it all.

Techman · 19th Nov 2019, 2:08 pm

I can't see where anybody on this thread has ever suggested that these machines were supposed to be double insulated.

saxmaniac · 21st Nov 2019, 1:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techman

I can't see where anybody on this thread has ever suggested that these machines were supposed to be double insulated.

No, nor can I! Ignore me, I'm going a bit do day!

14th Nov 2019, 5:12 pm	#1
Dorian27 Heptode Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales, UK. Posts: 564	Akai 1710 and 1719W mains cables I have an Akai 1710 which has a 3 core mains cable and I have just purchased a 1719W which only has a 2 core mains cable should it be left like that or should I put a 3 core cable on it

14th Nov 2019, 7:02 pm	#2
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: Akai 1710 and 1719W mains cables I can't find anything about your latest find Dorian but why would you change anything The bulk of more modern equipment doesn't have an earth so I'm guessing there are no concerns. Does it work? There are often issues of safety re the much earlier AC/DC equipment but that shouldn't apply here I'm thinking [You said you had a reasonable amount of experience with electronics at one point so I'm assuming you know what I mean about live chassis sets.] Dave W

14th Nov 2019, 8:30 pm	#3
Dorian27 Heptode Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales, UK. Posts: 564	Re: Akai 1710 and 1719W mains cables Hi Dave W thanks for the reply. It is not a 1719W model, fingers too quick on the pad. It is a 1710W. I am fairly up on electrical items but not always sure. I just wondered why two similar models should have different mains cables.? Yes they both are working OK at the moment. Thanks again.

15th Nov 2019, 7:24 am	#4
saxmaniac Heptode Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 618	Re: Akai 1710 and 1719W mains cables If it was mine I'd put 3 core cable on. You've got plenty of items at mains voltage attached to the chassis. I've got or owned 4 of these over the years and all were earthed

18th Nov 2019, 12:28 am	#5
unitelex Hexode Join Date: May 2005 Location: Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 496	Re: Akai 1710 and 1719W mains cables I recently repaired a 1720W which had a 2 core mains cable. The main problem was electrolytic ageing causing imbalanced L+R audio. The owner also mentioned some moderate hum problem and wanted it minimizing. While working on it I also noticed some AC leakage to the chassis, which was not nice. I tried swapping the live and neutral connections in the plug ( the cable had 2 brown wires IIRC so no polarity marking ) After swapping the hum was greatly reduced and the leakage to the chassis disappeared. This set had signs that it might have spent some time in a damp garage. So I guessed the leakage was internal to the transformer and it needed to dry out. I agree with Saxmaniac, it would be better with a 3 core mains cable. Chris

18th Nov 2019, 1:10 am	#6
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: Akai 1710 and 1719W mains cables Based on direct experience Chris, you and Saxman have certainly put up a good "case" for an earth lead. I hadn't realised there could be leakage. This question chimes a little with the [AC/DC] Premier Radio Earthing thread. I mentioned there that those sort of sets didn't have an earth or polarity markings on the mains leads as they worked either way. It's not the same as an AC/DC arrangement though as that wasn't at all compatible with Tape Recorders with and their external inputs and outputs to microphones etc. Dave W Last edited by dave walsh; 18th Nov 2019 at 1:17 am.

18th Nov 2019, 4:04 pm	#8
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: Akai 1710 and 1719W mains cables Is it possible the two machines were originally destined for different markets? Perhaps the 2-wire one was meant for mainland Europe where they have many 2-pin plugs, and the 3-wire one was meant for the UK or Australia. __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

18th Nov 2019, 8:57 pm	#9
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: Akai 1710 and 1719W mains cables Changes were due to market legislation. Initial markets e.g. US/Canada testing houses UL/CSA would have been satisfied with 2 core fig 8 unsheathed flex, although Akai had adjustable voltage selector. Any leakage which was not compatible with standards for double insulated items, including single pole mains switch, and fig 8 cable, would not be passed by VDE (Germany) and others, so this led to sheathed mains cable and double pole mains switches. Of course when all equipment had a 3 core flex, it was sometimes necessary to leave the earth wire floating to avoid hum loops.

19th Nov 2019, 9:05 am	#10
saxmaniac Heptode Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 618	Re: Akai 1710 and 1719W mains cables There's no way these could be considered double insulated. The comments on leaky caps and damp in mains transformners says it all.

19th Nov 2019, 2:08 pm	#11
Techman Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 5,000	Re: Akai 1710 and 1719W mains cables I can't see where anybody on this thread has ever suggested that these machines were supposed to be double insulated.