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Old 24th Jun 2018, 2:05 pm   #1
David Simpson
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Default Time Electronics 2003

Wanted please - replacement Battery, or recommendation of a decent supplier. It contains 10 x 1.5V button cells, and is approx. 'D' size :- 35mm Dia x 61.5mm High. Approx 450mA Hrs, Charging Rate approx. 40 - 45mA.

Regards, David
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 10:15 am   #2
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

That's certainly an oddball pack. Not obvious anywhere online. Is there any part number visible? And have you asked Strikalite or The Battery Shop? Both have produced at very reasonable cost replacement rechargeable packs to my spec.
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 11:41 am   #3
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

I've come across these in B&K test gear. I also had a similar oddball battery in a microphone, in the end I bought 100 cells and wrapped 9 I think in heatshrink to get the right voltage. Might be worth seeing how the individual cells are David and doing it yourself.

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Old 25th Jun 2018, 11:47 am   #4
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

DIY is certainly often best! The only value-added by the companies I mention is that they do all the connections/welding/shrinkwrapping for you.
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 12:45 pm   #5
David Simpson
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

Thanks Guys for the info. I've scrolled & scrolled through a number of battery sites + RS + Farnell, etc. Building up a button cell pack & heat shrinking it was my 1st thought. But no large button cells which are rechargeable or can take the o/p from the mains charging pack.
At this point, I'd better mention that its for an old 1970's Time Electronics 2003 4thumbwheel Voltage Potentiometer. Just remembered it last week after banging-on about my bigger/newer T/E VP on another chap's thread.
Stupid me had either forgot it had a R/C Battery or had thought it came without one several years ago. I always tell folk to check battery boxes in AVO's or any other non-mains test equipment. A cardinal sin !
Did find one suitable 15V R/C battery on the internet, but it was nigh-on 50 quid! Although I've tested the Time/E with separate bench DC PSU, and tested its mains charging pack, and thankfully found that the circuitry was leaking electrolyte - free - I doubt its worth 50 quid when refurbished.
Plan C = found a couple of new cheapo/chinko R/C PP3's on my shelf, nominally 9V, but they'll only charge up to 8V - So those two in series gives 16V which is within limits according to the wee manual. And they'll fit within the(now de-corroded) retaining band clip.
I'll keep this thread open in this section for a few more days in case someone comes up with an alternative solution. Then perhaps a kind Moderator might transfer it to the Test Equipment section & I'll post some pictures.

Regards, David
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 4:09 pm   #6
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

That looks like a fat version of the old Deac/Varta NiCd batteries used in PMR walkie talkies etc. They came in blue heat shrink sleeves. As it's rechargeable and vintage it should be NiCd and hence 12.5V for 10 cells. I used to have a number of 225DKZ 12V 225 mAH batteries for the Ultra Cub at one time, but they are all well past their sell-by dates now. I sort of think there was a 450DK or 500DK in the range, but can't find any spec sheet for dimensions.
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 4:25 pm   #7
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

Four lithium cells?
14.4 volts will be the result. Would that be enough or was the old battery have been 14.4 volts anyway. Nicad cells are 1.2 volts so 15 volts does not quite add up.
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 5:53 pm   #8
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

I've had a think and a look around since I saw it.

Nicads are a no-no nowadays, so you'd get pushed into NiMH and those have a diabolical self-discharge rate.

Lithium rechargeables need a different and more sophisitcated charging arrangement so it's not going to be easy to replace.

However, I think some modellers still get Nicads, so this may be a direction to pursue.

David
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 5:58 pm   #9
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

Belay my first pipe - discrepancy in info provided by me. The only Time manual I have is for the later & bigger 6thumbwheel 2003N. PSU info in attachment. I.E. a 15V NiCad. However, I've scrubbed all the crud off this blue battery & its revealed as a 12V "Sintered Rechargeable Battery", 10 cells at 1.2V/cell, obviously. Off load, the PSU(also called a "PU2") puts out 14.9V. So Refugee is spot-on in his judgement.
This'll give me more options for replacement, lithium cell wise. But price will still be a consideration. Must open up the bigger 2003N, because I see I made a note back on 28/6/12 that I'd changed the battery pack.

Regards, David

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Old 25th Jun 2018, 6:09 pm   #10
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

Info Attachment
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 9:23 pm   #11
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

Most of those button cell stacks have indeed aged badly now.
For 12 volts an SLA could be used if you can find one that is small enough to fit in there.
Lithium cells are like SLAs with a much tighter cut off voltage.
Float charging will kill them so you would need to research charge control chips that have the correct sensor for the cells you use.
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Old 25th Jun 2018, 10:08 pm   #12
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

The battery specialist "Allbatteries" still list NiCds in a number of configurations.
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Old 26th Jun 2018, 10:45 am   #13
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Simpson View Post
Belay my first pipe
That's an expression I haven't heard in a while!
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Old 26th Jun 2018, 2:09 pm   #14
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Default Re: 15V NiCad Battery

Advice taken from Refugee & emeritus. Room found to fit 10 x 1.2V AAA NiMH batteries, or at a squeeze - 10 x 1.2V NiCad AA's. Either jolly cheap from local sources.
Opened up the back of my larger 2003N & found I'd fitted 12 x 1.2V NiCad AA's, & they've been fine for the last 6 years.
Stockden - My last RAF posting was on 8 Sqdn(AEW Shackletons)(Fitted with ex Gannet Radar), at RAF Lossiemouth (formerly HMS Fulmar). The squadron was more or less 1/2 & 1/2 RAF & NAVY personnel. In fact the avionics side had more Navy guys - from Commissioned AEO's down to REM's. So I was squeezed between two PO's & our boss - a CPO. Picked up a lot of Navy jargon. As well as being wary of any trails of smarties leading into the heads.
Moderators - could you please transfer this thread into "Test Equipment", & I'll continue a few more posts regarding a "Tale of two Times". i.e. this old 2003 & a later 2003N. Thank you.

Regards, David
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Old 26th Jun 2018, 6:20 pm   #15
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Default Re: Time Electronics 2003

David you might find my write up on my solution from a few months ago useful, https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...highlight=time
Regards
Chris
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Old 26th Jun 2018, 8:15 pm   #16
David Simpson
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Default Re: Time Electronics 2003

Many thanks Chris. Yours is an excellent thread. Must've missed it, silly me. There are not many of these Time Electronics voltage sources about. I did much the same as you with my 2003N back in 2012. Apart from the duff batteries(thankfully not leaked), mine had a u/s null meter. Managed to find an identical one on the internet. Less than a tenner, if I recall. But my, what a fannying about job it was to change. I was given it by a local calibration Lab - still in spec, but they'd classed it as BER because their technician said it would take 3 hrs to repair. Took this old far*t of a technician about 2 hrs.
The old basic 2003 with just 4 thumbwheel switches must be a good ten years older. Its range is 1uV to 1.999V. I've done a quick check with a DMM & it seem OK, but will test it thoroughly against its big brother once I've repaired it. I've thoroughly rubbed down the slightly corroded s/steel enclosure for the PSU circuitry, & sprayed with primer.

Regards, David
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 1:30 am   #17
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Default Re: Time Electronics 2003

I have got a current one that I bought cheap for the thumb wheel switches.
After discovering what it really is a jig for 4 wire resistance measurement has been proposed so that I will have a two part contraption with my unit being one of the parts.
On mine the batteries are gone and a hole has been drilled for an external power cable.
The original charger socket is still there and is broken.
It does work.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 2:24 pm   #18
David Simpson
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Default Re: Time Electronics 2003

Any chance of a picture or two, Refugee, please ? What is its current range & Model Number ? It might lend itself to meter FSD-ing, as per Superscope's thread on Alignment & Calibration.
Very few Forum folk can afford to purchase NPL Standard items & equipment. But as I said on Superscope's thread, a small reliable battery operated calibrator, be it for voltage or current, could be taken along to vintage venues for checking other guy's Analogue & Digital Multimeters.
This old 2003, for example is stamped " 0.05% GRADE". The newer 2003N is stamped "0.02% GRADE". I submit that either would be suitable for a 37.5uA AVO movement, or any MC meter for that matter.

Regards, David
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 10:52 pm   #19
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Default Re: Time Electronics 2003

I have had a dig and found some stock photos from when I first acquired it.
It is model 505.
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 11:14 am   #20
David Simpson
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Default Re: Time Electronics 2003

Finished project. Repainted casing. Bought AAA rechargeable batteries to make up 12V pack. Checked against 2003N & Newlec DMM. Fine.

Regards, David
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