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Old 12th Feb 2019, 9:41 pm   #21
KeithsTV
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

Isn't there a time signal embedded in the Allouis carrier? Perhaps this is why it's still transmitting. I think the data format is the same as the German DCF signal on 77.5kHz.

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Old 12th Feb 2019, 10:29 pm   #22
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

There is- it seems an extravagant way of broadcasting a rather minimalist programme in the era of GPS. For a number of years between the original 164kHz frequency and the shift to the 162kHz multiple-of-nine allocation, Allouis' carrier was on 163.84kHz, or 5x the standard 32.768kHz clock timebase frequency- quite cunning, if not quite "playing the game"! To be fair, they could have argued that the UK was only doing the same with the lengthy persistence on 200kHz.

I quite miss the cessation of the German presence on 153kHz- not only was it a familiar and dependable signal in the UK, but the only consistent broadcast presence on the lowest 60-160kHz band on a trusty CR100.

The pre-war Marconi 559 here has a LW band stretching to above 400kHz, with a number of stations marked above the old 900m/333kHz aviation allocation including Finnmark, Budapest 2, Sverdlovsk and Banska-Bystrica. This broad coverage was the result of a wide-span tuning gang and separate LW oscillator coil (as opposed to a MW coil with substantial fixed capacitance switched across it) and seemed to be a characteristic of a number of Marconi/HMV sets both pre-and post-war.

One prominent long-term occupant of this "MLW" band was Oulu (Finland) on 433kHz- this must have been chosen long before c.455kHz IFs became familiar and apparently continued until 1977.

I used to have an Astrad Solar- surely in the running for the "best portable" thread that ran recently- that had LW coverage to 408kHz, presumably fitting with Soviet regional coverage beyond 300kHz.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 10:39 pm   #23
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turretslug View Post
That's a good point- supposedly, the so-called tropical SW broadcasting bands came about as a result of the difficulties with lightning interference on MW frequencies at low latitudes. LW with its wider range would presumably have been guaranteed to have storms affecting it much of the time. (Having said that, there's something oddly comforting about spits and splats on 198kHz- early warning to wind the barbecue down, get the chairs in, check the sunroof's closed....)
There's a storm in progress during the infamous "Illumination of the Fleet" broadcast. It somehow adds to the atmosphere.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 12:16 pm   #24
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'LIVEWIRE?' View Post
Older radios did have 'Droitwich' marked at 1500M. The transmitter there replaced the LW station at Daventry, which went on the air either in the late 1920s or early 30s, and originally had the callsign 5XX.
1934 according to this (scroll down): http://www.richardsradios.co.uk/radio_age.html
Hi,

So sets marked Droitwich are 1934 or later, but as per my earlier post,
sets marked National are not necessarily pre 1934. I wonder when the
overlap finished.

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Old 13th Feb 2019, 1:23 pm   #25
'LIVEWIRE?'
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

I don't know, Dave, but the two BBC Services were called the National and Regional Programs up to the outbreak of war in September 1939, AFAIK. During the war, again, AFAIK, they were the National and Forces Programs.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 1:31 pm   #26
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

A handy link for BBC radio transmitters timeline:

http://www.bbceng.info/Technical%20R...m_tx_nw_6a.pdf

Lawrence.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 2:28 pm   #27
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

This is the scale on my Fidelity, quite a late one to have the scale in Metres but post 23/11/1978.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 5:26 pm   #28
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it seems an extravagant way of broadcasting a rather minimalist programme in the era of GPS
Much less costly than your own GPS system and it isn't down to the whim of another country. And saves replacing all the receivers.
 
Old 13th Feb 2019, 5:49 pm   #29
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

From memory, I remember Hilversum mentioned. Almost certain it was a LW station.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 7:33 pm   #30
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

The Philips 805A from '39 or '40 shows Hilversum around 1880m (160kHz). Can't get a decent pic of the whole dial but here's the LF end
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 8:04 pm   #31
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

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The Philips 805A from '39 or '40 shows Hilversum around 1880m (160kHz). Can't get a decent pic of the whole dial but here's the LF end
I wonder if the "D" in a circle at 1500m served the same purpose as the (much later) triangles on American dials?
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 8:14 pm   #32
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julesomega View Post
The Philips 805A from '39 or '40 shows Hilversum around 1880m (160kHz). Can't get a decent pic of the whole dial but here's the LF end
I wonder if the "D" in a circle at 1500m served the same purpose as the (much later) triangles on American dials?
How little I know...what WERE the triangles for??
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 9:24 pm   #33
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

Conelrad marking.
From Wikipedia: CONELRAD had a simple system for alerting the public and other "downstream" stations, consisting of a sequence of shutting the station off for five seconds, returning to the air for five seconds, again shutting down for five seconds, returning to the air again (for 5 seconds), and then transmitting a 1 kHz tone for 15 seconds. Key stations would be alerted directly. All other broadcast stations would monitor a designated station in their area.

In the event of an emergency, all United States television and FM radio stations were required to stop broadcasting. Upon alert, most AM medium-wave stations shut down. The stations that stayed on the air would transmit on either 640 or 1240 kHz. They would transmit for several minutes and then go off the air, and another station would take over on the same frequency in a "round robin" chain. This was to confuse enemy aircraft who might be navigating using radio direction finding. By law, radio sets manufactured between 1953 and 1963 had these two frequencies marked by the triangle-in-circle ("CD Mark") symbol of Civil Defense.[2]
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 10:39 pm   #34
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

My 1939 Little Maestro has Hilversum at 1800m, Paris at 1600m, Deutchlandsender around 15750 (1571 from German newspaper extract), Droitwich at 1500 and Luxembourg at around 1350m.
Were there stations that had programming tailored to the regions? Just wondering, because if not it means MW of the radio has a good scattering of regional relays of the same thing Droitwich was radiating.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 11:00 pm   #35
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

Perhaps the D was Drahtfunk, a system used in Switzerland and Italy where programmes
were distributed via the telephone lines using LW carriers. Up to six channels were used
and the system continued until the late 1990's.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 11:09 pm   #36
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

Fascinating stuff
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 11:22 pm   #37
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

I don't think the 'Drahtfunk' system was ever used in the British Isles, though I seem to recall that at one time Norway used a system of 'Power line Distribution' which was probably similar.
Slightly OT, but, looking at old radio dials, such as the Philips 805A in post #30, makes me wonder where some of the places, such as 'Vigra', 'Wilna','Viipuri', & 'Baranovice' are. Almost certainly the latter is in Poland, and 'Wilna' might be 'Vilnius', but the others??
Going back to LW, Hilversum is also shown at around 1800M. on the pre-WW2 Philco dial which I have. As to the 'D' next to 'National', might it just stand for 'Droitwch'?
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 12:55 am   #38
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
Quote:
it seems an extravagant way of broadcasting a rather minimalist programme in the era of GPS
Much less costly than your own GPS system and it isn't down to the whim of another country. And saves replacing all the receivers.
True- even time has become a national integrity issue! And I was surprised to find that there is considerable 162kHz legacy dependency in France, I wonder just how much is dependent on 198kHz here. It's a shame that 162kHz programme modulation had to go though, I like listening to both French and German language programming to keep up to speed. Sure, it's all there on the 'net but it's not the same as a set of gently glowing KTW62s....
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 1:08 am   #39
Dave757
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

Quote:
I wonder just how much is dependent on 198kHz here.
Hi

AFAIK, it controlled my Economy 7 electric meter when I was
in Birmingham.

Kind regards
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 7:34 am   #40
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Default Re: Long-wave stations (historic)

Wilna or Wilno is almost certainly Vilnius Lithuania.
Interesting thread.
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