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Old 31st Jul 2019, 11:52 am   #41
kalee20
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

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Originally Posted by ColinTheAmpMan1 View Post
Quite so, Tony. I must have been on a different planet when I posted that. Organic carbon compounds with two carbon atoms are, of course, ethyl and ethylene.
I picked up on it too - but by then Tony had put up his post.

Methylene chloride CH2Cl2 is a strange name, after all, 'methylene' doesn't exist! Dichloromethane is logical.

And whoever decided to rename carbon tetrachloride CCl4 as tetrachloromethane deserves to be shot - after all, we haven't renamed carbon dioxide CO2 as dioxymethane, have we? Or even oxymethanal or oxyformaldehyde? Which would be just as logical!

Traditional Nitromors indeed contains methylene chloride, and also methyl alcohol (dunno the proportions). Both nasty, but they do work well.

I haven't had any trouble with 'new' Nitromors, except that it takes ages. I tend to paint the stuff on, and if the paint is old I put the whole lot in a plastic bag, to stop it drying out (which is fatal, you can't shift it then).
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 12:55 pm   #42
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

The new Nitromors is certainly weaker than the old stuff, I have to use twice as much to get the job done and it takes longer.
I don't have a problem with that if it's less harmful, if it's an old radio cabinet being refurbished it isn't anything to rush anyway.
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 12:58 pm   #43
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

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Traditional Nitromors indeed contains methylene chloride, and also methyl alcohol (dunno the proportions). Both nasty, but they do work well.
I agree with much of what kalee20 says in post #41 but I don't think that methylene chloride and methyl alcohol (methanol) are comparable in terms of nastiness. Yes, methyl alcohol is poisonous if consumed in sufficient quantities as are very many liquids other than water. Alcohol (ethanol/ethyl alcohol) certainly falls into this category and yet many of us imbibe significant amounts on a regular basis. Methylene choride on the other hand can be fatally damaging to health in short order and is ecologically very unsafe into the bargain.

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Old 31st Jul 2019, 1:36 pm   #44
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

Homestrip (available from Toolstation) is far and away the best paint stripper I've ever used. I urge you to give it a try. I've shifted all sorts of horrid super thick old paint with it... from 300 years worth of finishes on doors and beams in our house - through the 1970's grey paint on a Lenco turntable - to the paint and underseal on the sills of our Citroen C3.

It's available from Toolstation.

https://www.toolstation.com/home-str...remover/p70267

This stuff, like other modern strippers, takes a little while but crikey - be patient! It's not as if restoring an old radio is a speedy job!!!!!

Safe to use, kind to the environment and not harmful to your skin.

Steve.
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 4:21 pm   #45
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

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Homestrip (available from Toolstation) is far and away the best paint stripper I've ever used. I urge you to give it a try.

It's available from Toolstation.

https://www.toolstation.com/home-str...remover/p70267

This stuff, like other modern strippers, takes a little while but crikey - be patient! It's not as if restoring an old radio is a speedy job!!!!!

Safe to use, kind to the environment and not harmful to your skin.

Steve.
It may be kind to the environment, but some posts in the thread mention other ecological concerns - post 34 for example (fish, bees, butterflies etc). I don't know whether those concerns of kindness to sentient animals extend to rabbits and rats. If so, the safety data sheet for 'Homestrip' might be worth a glance, given that the toxicity tests of the active ingredient (triethyl phosphate) appear to include dermal tests on rabbits and oral/inhalation tests on rats. Here's a clip:

Quote:

SECTION 11 Toxicological information (....) LD50 (oral, rat) (triethyl phosphate) 800 mg/kg LD50 (dermal, rabbit) (triethyl phosphate) 20,000 mg/kg LC50 (inhalation, rat) (triethyl phosphate) 8817 mg/l/4h Based on available data, the classification criteria are not met.

End quote.

Rats as vermin is one thing, but the rats in question aren't vermin - they're lab rats, bred for the purpose of experimentation, followed by dissection to ascertain the effects of toxicity. I thought things had moved on a bit from that.

I'm not lobbying for rabbits and rats - just saying.
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 4:42 pm   #46
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

I agree with Dave - I'm not a fan of determining toxicity by killing lab animals. We know DCM and methyl alcohol are hazardous, we don't need to maim any creature, we have the knowledge.

Any replacement, however has to be quantified for toxicity, so by-bye another load of creatures. (I note the LD50 is 800mg/kg and LD dermally is 20,000mg/kg so as an 87kg human, assuming I am physiologically similar to rats, I would need to drink 69g or pour 1.74kg over myself to have a strong chance of being killed).

I'm not a rat lover, but I agree with Lewis Carroll when he wrote about animal experimentation - practicing it suppresses natural respect for life and develops a culture of ruthlessness which will be our undoing.

If it was a choice of killing a load of rats (and making them increasingly uncomfortable as the 'safer' the chemical, the more you have to make them eat it in order to kill 50% of the sample) to find a safe stripper, or just putting on PPE to use traditional Nitromors, I'd reach for my PPE and the traditional yellow tin!
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 5:40 pm   #47
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

How about keeping animals away from the radio cabinet being restored (a Murphy A104 I believe)?
Saving the planet is a little outside our remit.
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 5:46 pm   #48
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

Good points. I'd like to see the data sheet that you are referring too but I cant find it on the manufacturers website.
I too am not at all happy about animal testing and the LD50 test has failings in my opinion; in addition there's a lot of testing still carried out on everyday household products. However, I guess the tests on Homestrip have been done now and so cannot be undone. I seem to remember that some of our standards for electrical safety are derived from data obtained by lethal experiments carried out by the Nazis on humans. We all use RCDs which have operating characteristics based on that information.
I'm not sure how happy I am about that either!!

Steve.
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 6:03 pm   #49
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

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Good points. I'd like to see the data sheet that you are referring to but I cant find it on the manufacturers website.

Steve.
It's on the Toolstation website here Steve on the same page as the 'Homestrip' link:

https://cdn.aws.toolstation.com/items/coshh/70267.pdf

As I said, I've no axe to grind - I'm not a vegan - I eat meat, fish & shellfish, and this isn't an animal rights forum.

I mentioned it because of concerns raised by other, which I respect.

The thread is primarily about what paint strippers currently legally on sale for use by non-professionals in a domestic setting, are the most effective.
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 6:09 pm   #50
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

I reckon that Wickes' stuff is worth a try! I've taken thick, grotty varnish off transformer bodies with it very nicely.

The issue of toxicity is interesting; until quite recently, 'scientists' had told everyone that humans could tollerate exposure to a certain level of lead without harmful effects. Current thinking is changing to the view that there is no safe level; some lead does some harm, more lead does more harm. Foetal humans are at special risk. It would be no surprise to find out that the same perception gets applied to very many chemicals as time goes by.

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Old 31st Jul 2019, 6:20 pm   #51
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

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And whoever decided to rename carbon tetrachloride CCl4 as tetrachloromethane deserves to be shot - after all, we haven't renamed carbon dioxide CO2 as dioxymethane, have we? Or even oxymethanal or oxyformaldehyde? Which would be just as logical!
I think you can put this at the door of the IUPAC (International Union of Pure and Applied Chemists). Back in the sixties there was a drive to replace the "trivial" names of chemicals (e.g. carbon tetrachloride) with "systematic" names (tetrachloromethane). It is quite useful in the profession of chemistry, but does tend to irritate the occasional users. Would you believe that some years ago there was a madcap idea to change the names of the chemical elements to more "systematic" names. So, oxygen would become "octium" (element No 8) and hydrogen would become "unium" (element No 1). Water then gets renamed "octium di-uniide". You can imagine some of the other catastrophes that would be possible. I think it was intended as a measure to prevent the continual arguments over the naming of "new" synthetic elements. The idea eventually got dropped - hence "oganesson", the heaviest element so far.

I feel I have drifted off-topic, here....where did I put my coat?

Colin.
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 6:52 pm   #52
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

Our kitchen table top needs stripping - the varnish has gone sticky, it's a nuisance.
What's the concensus here for the best varnish stripper?
Thanks chaps...
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 7:02 pm   #53
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

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Would you believe that some years ago there was a madcap idea to change the names of the chemical elements to more "systematic" names. So, oxygen would become "octium" (element No 8) and hydrogen would become "unium" (element No 1). Water then gets renamed "octium di-uniide".
I once freaked-out a chemically-naiive type by telling him that the INTeL processor in his PC contained the radioactive element "Pentium" and that if the chip encapsulation was damaged he could become sterile....

As a scientist I rather like the rigo(u)r of IUPAC-naming conventions - and will forgive them "Sulfur" and "Aluminum".
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 7:24 pm   #54
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

I wonder if that chap invested in lead lined underwear after that
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Old 31st Jul 2019, 8:03 pm   #55
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Default Re: Traditional Paint Stripper.

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The thread is primarily about what paint strippers currently legally on sale for use by non-professionals in a domestic setting, are the most effective.
It is indeed. The regulations are here to stay, as are the "workarounds" pursued strictly at one's own risk. Unless anyone knows of a product not so far mentioned there is little more to add.
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