What vintage turntable?

[SteveCG]

Josh,

I agree with your analysis. I think one of the the reasons was that the tip diameter of mono stylii (all being a 'spherical' design) was greater than that of spherical stereo-compatible stylii. This meant that for a mono stylus there was less force per unit area on the groove than for a stereo stylus - when they were both set to the same tracking weight. Off memory I thought this was a factor of 2 to 4. So a stereo stylus tracking at, say, 3 gram weight did the same amount of damage as a mono stylus tracking at 12 gram - on a mono record. Important - Don't try playing a stereo record with a mono stylus, you will damage the record as the track widths are narrower!! Finally I think that when the LP was first introduced the tracking weight of the proposed cartridge was about 12 gram.

It is an interesting question as whether some of the fancier designs of stereo stylii with elliptical shapes - or hyper-elliptical shapes - may cause more damage due to this force per unit area argument; but we would be drifting off topic.

[julie_m]

Gratuitous Pedantry: There is only one "i" in "styli" -- it's stylus, not stylius.

[threeseven]

At the budget end the PL12-D is difficult to beat, I had one when they were new and was very satisfied with the performance.
The Garrard SP25 was ok but had a tendency to rumble, I recollect trying to cure this on a friends for many weeks after he bought it new but was never fully successful.
Thorens are excellent and whilst the TD150 is now collectable the much later ones are quite cheap. I have a TD125 mkII and it would be difficult to beat it unless spending lots more money.

[PauldeH]

I'd put in a word for a Philips 212. Cheap as chips and they sound way, way better than they should. And they look fantastic into the bargain. Never that recognised in the UK, but in Europe and the States they have gained a bit of a cult following.

[D_S_J_R]

Oh, the 212 was well loved in the UK too, by those that know them

Just a bit frail and with a steel platter, that's all. With a mid priced modern cartridge (AT120e or AT440MLa?), the sound would be hard to beat I think.

[SteveCG]

This is a Pedants aside.

AJS,

Point noted concerning stylii and styli. But then again I don't suppose many Romans had 33 1/3 rpm LPs!!

Isn't language wonderful.

[barretter]

To be truly pedantic and off-topic it should be which vintageturntable, not what.

[JonCartwright]

Thanks again for the continued input, guys. Only I have looked up some of these more recent suggestions - the 212, for instance - and they don't seem to be too easy to get hold of.

Baretter - quite right! And I'm a journalist, too. I hang my head in shame. :-S

[BGmidsUK]

I am very pleased with my Rega Planar 3 - sounds really good for what appears to be a quite basic turntable. I paid £100 for mine s/h about 15 years ago and have seen them on offer around this price recently. They cost approx £400 new for the basic P3. Does need a shelf mounted to a solid wall or a decent table if you have good solid floors, as I expect do most turntables, if you want to avoid vibration. Spares are available as well.

And .. I thought vintageturntable was supposed to be two words ..


Brian

[paulsherwin]

If you just want something cheap, look out for any Japanese deck from the mid 70s to mid 80s, both direct drive and belt drive. These were made and sold in vast numbers and regularly crop up at car boots, flea markets and charity shops for a few pounds. They won't sound as neutral as some of the fine decks suggested above but will still provide excellent sound quality for very little money.

As has been mentioned, you will need a phono preamp if your amplifier doesn't have a phono input stage. These are quite easy to build if you're handy with a soldering iron - have a look at this RJM Audio design.

[Tweeter]

Originally Posted by SteveCG

This is a Pedants aside.
AJS,
Point noted concerning stylii and styli. But then again I don't suppose many Romans had 33 1/3 rpm LPs!!
Isn't language wonderful.

It is! Taken pedantry to the nth, I've always been of the view that the plural of stylus is styluses, in much the way that the plural of bus isn't bi (see "omnibus"). Latin words that become sufficiently naturalised are usually not puralised as per latin. "Stylus" and a few others seem to be an exception often though. Being a good linguistic descriptivist rather than prescriptivist, I bow to the wisdom of crowds, though.

Rather back on topic, I have a Dual CS505 (I think version 1 or 2, sadly) which I didn't acquire from Ebay but rather from the back of a cupboard (I have cupboards that stretch back to the 80s) and equipped with a new stylus to play the odd stereo LP in my sea of mono, as I didn't want to damage them. It's not pretty, being a bit plasticky, but sounds fine, but if someone could advise if I could get a much more decent sound from one of the decks usefully mentioned in this thread, thanks! I bought this when it was released, and probably squeezed every last penny to get it. Can't remember!

[rossman]

Hi Jon, lots of good suggestions here, I am mainly a Lenco user myself, they are fun and fairly simple to work on with lots of info at Lenco Heaven as Josh mentioned earlier.

However as you are looking for a first turntable my recommendation would be to go for something a bit more simple from those already mentioned namely either a Rega, a Rotel or the PL12D (or it's younger brother the PL112D if you don't like the 12Ds looks). The reason behind this is that the likes of the Thorens and Systemdeks are suspended tables which are isolated via springs and it can be a problem to get these are not set up correctly as sound quality suffers, they are great decks (I have a TD150 and a TD160 in my collection) but take a bit more setting up.

Usually if friends ask about turntables I will suggest a Rotel, 830, 850, 855 or 955 are all fairly similar and generally available for reasonable money.

Hope this helps.
Paul

[PJL]

For something functional and safe to use on all records, the 80's japanese Pioneer or Technics are difficult to beat.

Otherwise you are placing looks over function which either takes you down the audiophool path of incredible expense or the nostalgic path where you will compromise on sound quality and risk damaging your records.

One note of warning is the cartridge. They are expensive and the stylus needs replacing periodically. Having said that my DVD player only lasted 2 years before the laser diode gave up and that isn't an economically serviceable part so the whole thing is heading down the skip.

[SteveGiles]

Being a fan of minimalism, I always fancied a Linn Sondek LP12, but couldn't afford one until after I'd dumped all my LP's, so it never happened.

Back (sort of) on topic, if you want a great amplifier with a phono stage to go with your turntable, keep a lookout on Ebay for a QED A230 or A240. A nice old piece of British-made Hi-Fi, and they tend to go for around £50, since apparently no-one remembers them. The A230 has the bonus of having grey textured paint with lime green graphics!

Steve

EDIT: Forget the £50 price, their stock seems to have fallen. I just checked a few Ebay completed auctions and one went for £13.38!!!! That's just a silly price for proper Hi-Fi! Makes me want to buy another one, but I've got three already.

[D_S_J_R]

Speaking as one who knows the LP12 was a fruity charm deck of little neutrality until the Cirkus kit came along. Some of the better decks suggested above were more faithful to what is really there on the vinyl, good and bad...

I think we've covered most of the options now. The cheap-as-chips Jap decks being all but thrown away can work well with a decent support and new stylus - the types with "T-4P" cartridges track at 1.25g approx so won't damage your records. I know many of the Technics models and they're pretty safe and not too flimsy on their cheaper models. Just DON'T buy an SL2000 model, as the speed servo hunts all over the place - ghastly thing and a one-off anomaly... We did well with the 1975 issue SL20 model. Fitted with a Pickering V15-VE (we sold them with the similar but discontinued Stanton 500EE) or Audio Technica AT95E, they should be funky and fun as long as the speed presets are clean and no other problems - new belts should be available easily enough..

[howard]

Originally Posted by D_S_J_R

Speaking as one who knows the LP12 was a fruity charm deck of little neutrality until the Cirkus kit came along. Some of the better decks suggested above were more faithful to what is really there on the vinyl, good and bad.....

No don't buy a Linn LP12 Sondek, they're much too expensive to buy and to have maintained now. They weren't so expensive back in the early 1980s though when I acquired mine. They are a good sounding deck though, colorations and all. They're troublesome though, I'm having problems with a Valhalla power supply in mine as I speak ....

Howard

[robgilmo]

Tuning lp12's and thorens etc can be a pain and not easy unless you know what you are doing. A badly tuned suspended deck can greatly reduce its performance.
Rega 2 would be your best bet although for future modification fun a Thorens TD 150 is hard to beat. The TD 160's are good but you will need an arm to make them great. Try and stay away from the TD 166 if you go down the thorens road , its got a plastic platter and doesn't perform very well as a result.

Any record player , unless its a complete crock will give you a decent enough sound compared to a CD player (i am biased though , analogue is much better in my opinion), record cleanliness is important as is setting up the arm and Turn Table, remember a badly set up £1000 Turn table and arm can sound rougher than a well set up budget TT and arm.

Budget for the necessary bits and bobs to set up the cartridge and table, there is a lot more to it than one might first realise.

Its all good fun though and once you start fettling its hard to stop, this is why the thorens are such good tables.

This might be worth a read, its hard to get your head around at first but once you put it all into practice it rings home quite fast.

http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ttadjust.html

This is a good site to look through , full of info and worth a read.

http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_dept_.htm

If it were me i would hold out for a Thorens then i would hold out for an SME 2009, after that a cartridge and away you go.

Ive always fancied a Michell focus one s and they do turn up on e bay from time to time, nice vintage TT.

If you decide on Rega 11 (you really wont go far wrong with one) make sure its got the RB250 arm.

[Trevor]

£20-£35 Trio Kd1033 unlimited budget for me the Dual cs701 state of the art 1972
I have both the trio is a bright and lively deck used with a Shure m75ed
The Dual I have had mine for thirty years with many cartridges is still sate of the art and fuss free
regards Trev

[Diabolical Artificer]

Ive been following this thread with interest.Concerning the GL75 decks.Whats the difference between a GL75 and a GL75 Transcription?Andy

[mickjjo]

Originally Posted by magnetic

Whats the difference between a GL75 and a GL75 Transcription?Andy

I believe they are all the same, All my GL75s have "Stereo Transcription Turntable" marked on them, as do the GL70, GL72 and GL78 models.

Regards, Mick.