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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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5th Jan 2021, 12:30 am | #1 |
Triode
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Hastings, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 20
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Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
I’m refurbishing a Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed and need to repaint. The original is flaking and there’s a hole drilled where the label usually goes. Unfortunately said hole wouldn’t be entirely covered by a replacement label. Does anyone know of a good match for the original paint?
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5th Jan 2021, 1:43 am | #2 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,801
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
I think they were in silver-hammer stove enamel. A R Sugden was in Brighouse, and not too far away in the same town was a firm called Stove Enamelers ltd who I used to refinish and bake an AR88 panel and cabinet. I think they did the painting for Sugden's. However, I think the enamelers closed some years ago when the recycled mill building they had part of was burned down.
The stoved stuff is a much harder finish than room temperature hammerite. Spray can silver Hammerite may be the closest you can get at home unless you have a spray gun and compressor, then you can spray hammerite thinned out more than the aerosols have it... this gives a finer finish, but the thinners are not easy to find. Some powder coating firms can do a finer finish than you usually associate with the process. You'll never get a good enough match to blend, so you'll have to redo the full thing, so exact matching becomes less important. David
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5th Jan 2021, 10:55 am | #3 |
Triode
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Hastings, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 20
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
Thanks David.
That’s a lot of good information. I wasn’t expecting to match that well but I didn’t think a can of hammerite would give a good enough finish either. Powder coating could be an option… I hadn’t thought of that. Cheers Jay |
5th Jan 2021, 2:32 pm | #4 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 2,583
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
Not sure about the enamelling theory. The attached 'photo is lifted from a thread last year about one these decks which was rescued from a skip. It's not conclusive evidence but it looks to me like you're dealing with paint rather than enamel. This could be good news because if it is paint it'll be much easier to strip the top plate back to bare metal and it should be possible to produce a decent enough finish with sprayed Hammerite. Hammerite thinners are not that hard to find at a price. With regard to the hole, unless you can weld (or know someone who can) I'd go for using car body filler supported by mesh.
Alan |
5th Jan 2021, 5:34 pm | #5 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
That does indeed look like chemically attacked paint rather than true enamel. It might be a low-bake stuff that gets a harder finish in less time than air-dried stuff can do.
Hammerite sprayed carefully ought to get you there, and if you don't like the result first time you can clear it and have another go. It stays soft for quite a while, so some gentle heat will help harden it off. Sussex is a bit too far even in normal circumstances, but I have TIG facilities. How big is the hole? David
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Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done |
6th Jan 2021, 8:34 am | #6 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Bognor Regis, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 2,288
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
How neat is the hole, you could fit an aluminium disk of the same size, glued in and then smoothed with car filler.
Peter |
6th Jan 2021, 10:55 am | #7 |
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
Long term, you'll probably get a paint crack where the plug meets the hole just from thermal creepage, if the two things aren't fused.
David
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Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done |
7th Jan 2021, 4:22 pm | #8 | |
Triode
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Hastings, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 20
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
Quote:
Here's the offender. I was wondering about those aluminium welding rods to fill it with. |
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7th Jan 2021, 10:45 pm | #9 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,528
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
How "original" do you need it to look? A "portrait" rather than "landscape" format label in the style of the original would cover the hole and still clear that inconvenient screw.
Or perhaps upset the rivet counters by changing the screw to a countersunk one, allowing the label to be placed over the hole?
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8th Jan 2021, 6:14 pm | #10 |
Triode
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Hastings, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 20
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
I'd like it to look original. Moving the label down will just look like I'm trying to hide something. I'd know I was trying to hide something every time I used it. I do have a label… although it's black rather than white which it should be.
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8th Jan 2021, 9:20 pm | #11 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
Those aluminium 'welding' rods are really a soldering process. They have a much lower melting point in reach of gas blowlamps. If you made a well-fitting aluminium plug it would be a great process for you and could be used like body solder for building up as needed.
I tried some of these rods at a demo-booth in the exhibition messe at Friedrichshaven. As it was their annual aero event, not the amateur radio one, passers by weren't too interested, thinking of the consequences of failure in an aircraft. For just joining non-critical, low stress things, give them a whirl. David
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Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done |
13th Jan 2021, 11:41 am | #12 |
Triode
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Hastings, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 20
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
Thanks David. The ads for the rods include footage of hole fitting. I doubt the temperature needed would have any effect of the base plate so it seems like a good option.
I too wouldn't be keen on using them to hold the wings on. |
13th Jan 2021, 6:26 pm | #13 |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dundee, UK.
Posts: 1,797
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
Jay,
Could I ask a question concerning the Sugden Connaisseur turntable that is not directly related to your post please? I need to restore one of these turntables but have been unable to find a source of the anti-vibration mounting bushes. All those I've found are much too stiff. Do you know of a source of the correct type please? PMM |
13th Jan 2021, 6:39 pm | #14 |
Triode
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Hastings, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 20
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
So glad you asked me PMM. As it’s question I can answer… there are many I cannot
There’s a thread over at Lenco heaven about just this. I don’t have a link for it right now but as a result I found this supplier: https://www.avproductsinc.com/cylind...tp-mounts.html They’re metric so you will have to file the holes a little to fit. There’s also these: https://www.vibrationmounts.com/ I believe the neoprene version is about the same firmness as the original. Currently all the mounts on mine are still serviceable but I bookmarked them for future reference. |
13th Jan 2021, 9:05 pm | #15 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 3,315
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
As you’re going to paint it - why not use epoxy filler, smooth it over and paint.
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13th Jan 2021, 9:15 pm | #16 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: York, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 54
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
Several suggestions here to use spray can Hammerite. Don't, I've never managed to get good results from the aerosol cans and the nozzle has always clogged up before the can is even half empty. However, I have had fantastic results by applying Hammerite from a tin with a foam roller. Warm the tin very well in hot water first and work quickly, roll out thoroughly and be prepared to change the roller (gloves on) before the solvent starts to dissolve the foam.
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Tim 'It's not burned, it's caramelised.' |
14th Jan 2021, 2:49 pm | #17 |
Triode
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Hastings, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 20
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
Thanks Tim,
You'd probably get a nice thick coat that way too. Jason |
14th Jan 2021, 3:17 pm | #18 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,801
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
For hammer paint to work, you have to get a thick coat, thick enough and wet enough for the surface tension trick to work and form the hammer finish.
THis is actually very difficult to achieve with an aerosol because if you try to get the needed thickness in the liquid phase on the work, you get runs on anything other than a scrupulously level flat part. Spraying too thin a coating at once dries with little hammer effect and a sandpapery feeling surface. The spraying world's equivalent of a dry joint! If you use a proper spray gun to get around the limitations of aerosol nozzles, boy do you need to be sure to get that stuff out of your gun as soon as possible. You also have to be very finickity about getting it all clean. Traces of hammer type paints will ruin subsequent jobs with that gun. A gravity-fed metal cup on a gun is maybe the easiest to clean if you get it wrong. David
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Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done |
14th Jan 2021, 6:16 pm | #19 |
Triode
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Hastings, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 20
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Re: Refurbishment of Sugden Connoisseur Variable 3 Speed
So that's hand paint or powder coat. After filling the hole with low temperature brazing rod. right'o sounds like a project
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