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Old 25th Apr 2010, 11:39 am   #1
David Simpson
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Default Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope).

Have just been given the mainframe & most of the innards of this ancient scope. I've searched out a number of Forum posts on their pre-war history,etc, but need a Manual if I'm to consider refurbishing it.
Have tried BAMA, and scrolled through the VMARS index, but couldn't find anything.
Any help most appreciated.

Regards, David
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Old 25th Apr 2010, 4:51 pm   #2
peter_scott
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope) Manual

Hi David,

I have 339 manual. Is that the same?

Peter

edit: I see Jon has it already on his site http://www.thevalvepage.com/servdata/testeq/cossor.htm

Last edited by peter_scott; 25th Apr 2010 at 5:07 pm.
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Old 25th Apr 2010, 6:17 pm   #3
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope) Manual

Peter, thanks for pdf info. Yes, according to other folk's posts - the 339 is the military no for the civilian 3339

Regards, David
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Old 25th Apr 2010, 8:17 pm   #4
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope) Manual

Hi David, let me know how you get on as I may have some bits from one I dismantled many years ago, including some of the very large resistors.

Ed
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Old 26th Apr 2010, 10:01 am   #5
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope) Manual

Also have a 339a at this end in excellent external appearance.It did work well though at present it sounds as though something is breaking down when fired up.

David
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Old 26th Apr 2010, 4:41 pm   #6
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope) Manual

The Manual downloaded from Jon's site & his picture are a wee bit advanced than this basic 3339. No toggle switches on the front, only two wee 'Coils' sockets on the front, beneath the display. But overall - much the same. That manual also says the CRT is a Type 09D, but this one has Type 2229(or is it 222G), s/no 466.

Regards, David
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Old 30th Apr 2010, 8:19 pm   #7
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope) Manual

Cossor 3339. I would be very interested to hear of what you find. The 3339 I believe was the pre-war version, using video output pentodes, type probably 42SPT (with 4v heater) or 61SPT with 6.3V heater. Can you confirm which?
The 339 was introduced in 1942, and used the 807 for the Y amplifiers. This gave lower performance, but presumably the valve was easier to get than specialist video output pentodes. Otherwise probably very similar to your 3339.
Oddly enough, the Hartley 13A produced for the Army before 1951 used the Philips/Mullard AL60, a very similar video output pentode to the 42SPT, with 4v heater, which was also a pre-war valve and rapidly becoming obsolete, and the Cossor 09D (4 1/2") tube, which was also obsolete and replaced in the 13A by the 89D (4") tube in 1951.
The tube may have been 09D for short screen phosphor, or 09J for long persistence. An earlier Cossor tube was probably 3232 (5 1/4"diam) or 3236 gas focussed, or 3271/3272/3274/3276 high vacuum. What is the tube diameter. 09 was 4 1/2", 3276 was 6 3/4", the others smaller.
Your tube reference is new to me; there is the 4 1/2" 26D, single beam version of 09D. You may be able to see if there is a splitter plate between the Y deflection plates (Xplates are nearest the screen).
Any comments upon what you find, such as valve types and bases, tube type and screen diameter would be most helpful. Bill m0wpn
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Old 3rd Aug 2010, 6:06 pm   #8
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope) Manual

After lenghy involvement with CT160 discussions recently, must get back to basics. ie this Cossor 3339. Has been looking at me from beneath my bench like a hungry labrador, for quite a few weeks.
I've only been able to download the 339 Manual. This beast has been "got at". Think someone has tried to convert it to a primative TV. The original IO & UX5 valve bases have been replaced with B8B American Loctal bases with threaded skirts. But all their cans are missing, and the valves. Also missing are the bottom two L & R double Pots, A1 & A2 Gain, and Amp & Trig., + their inner & outer round knobs.
Apart from a bit of dust, the chassis is well galvanized & free from rust. The grey front plate and cover are easily cleanable.
Any help & advice is most welcome again.
The Cossor CRT, now that it is removed, is labeled Type 3229 or is it 2229 & it's s/n is 466.
Before going any further - shall megger out the transformer & chokes.

Regards, David
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Old 3rd Aug 2010, 7:01 pm   #9
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope) Manual

Thanks for the update on this machine. I think you will find that the circuit used is very similar to the 1940 vintage 339; that is a three valve Puckle time base, and single video output pentode for each channel. Pity the thing is partly stripped. Bill m0wpn
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Old 3rd Aug 2010, 9:25 pm   #10
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope) Manual

Bill,Thanks for your reply. I'll put out pictures of this sorry scope soon.
I havent rebuilt a scope since the mid 60's. Then it was a 13A which had enthusiastically blown it's oil filled EHT T/former. What a mess & smell ! But then, our workshop at RAF Cosford was awash with old 13A's & loads of spares. Before the Hartley 436 came into general use, it was the main tuition scope for Boy Entrants & Apprentices. Likewise we were awash with AVO 7's. My, how those old bits of gear suffered at the hands of blue uniformed teenagers.

Regards, David
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 10:03 am   #11
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope) Manual

Hello, my dad had one of these, as in thevalvepage photo, but the model number was cleary marked as a Type 10? Various manuals were marked as a 339, it had the 807 valves in it, so who knows. It was beyond help and was scrapped, but I kept the CRT, a 10E/183, with the magnetic deflection coils. Also have a, what I think, is a brand new spare CRT still in its wooden crate. I always understood from dad that it was for the 339/10/3339 but have never opened the crate up, and labels long gone in 65 years.

Bob
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Old 4th Aug 2010, 2:51 pm   #12
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope).

Guys, looks like the project is stalled. Completely different mains T/former than the 22 tag one shown in the Manual. Only one independent sec winding for heaters. And one multi-tapped sec for HT's up to about 1400V.
V1 had been replaced with two CV7476(STC 6628)'s semi-conductor diodes, and V2 had been replaced by a "Z9768" Diode - a huge encapsulated beast - Anyone know anything about it, I wonder ?
The replacement T/former has only 12 tags, and T102 & 5J18 stamped on the top of the metal casing - another puzzle ?
If I can source the two missing double pots, the transformer, and see if Bob might consider parting with his Dad's CRT's for spares, then I might be in with a chance.
Valves & valve bases are easily sourced, I expect.
I wish I could find out who did the original alterations.

Regards, David
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 10:34 am   #13
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope).

If it had 807's, then a model 339. I have found a reference to the 3339 with picture and brief spec (about 1941), together with similar info for the 339 taken from the 1946 6th reprint of the 1942 manual. I attach a scan. It is interesting to note the much lower Y sensitivity, due to the lower gain valves in the version using 807 valves. The timebase performance appears the same.
What is the maximum diameter of the tube. That might resolve whether 09 or 3232, or some other.
There appears to have been an even earlier model (circa 1935), which was completely different with much smaller case, a gas focussed tube, and three valves only : rectifier, thyratron (Mazda T31?) for sweep, and single valve amplifier.
The name thyratron was a Mazda copyright, but they were certainly a rare type of valve, primarily used for industrial control, and just a few high speed one developed for TV timebases. My 1940 Wireless World Valve Data booklet lists Mazda making the T31 (on octal base) or T41 (on Mazda octal at half the price), and Osram/GEC offering the GT1C "Gasfilled Relay". Mullard/Philps had nothing. Also as a matter of interest, Osram were still offering tetrodes for RF amplifier use (?KTW61/KTW62/VR100), to avoid the Philips patent upon the suppressor grid to make a pentode. Bill
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Cossor3339 & 339 pictures.pdf (230.8 KB, 370 views)
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 12:15 pm   #14
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope).

Bill, Thank you for the picture download. Mine is definetely the top one, although the "COILS" socket board has just two wee sockets, not four.
As all the valves were missing, I cant tell if 807's were used. Anyway, the original IO valve bases were removed & replaced with B8B American Loctal bases. This probably was not a Cossor modification, I just dont know.
I've found out that CV2725 or CV1518's were a possible substitute for the original O9D's. This CRT is definitely labelled "Cossor" & it's 4 1/8" dia fits snuggly in the faceplate & rear clamp. The type & s/n have faded over the years but I can definitely make out 3229 altrhough the 3 is a bit faint.
As well as the two bottom L & R double pots( A1&A2 Gain)(Amp.&Trig.), the rear wafer assembly of the bottom "Amplifiers" switch is also missing. So those plus a replacement 22 Tag Transformer are top of my shopping list.
As a practical scope for modern day workshop use, this beast is really just too outdated. However, as a vintage restoration project - well worth it. It's nowhere near as heavy or bulky as a 13A, so would find a wee corner somewhere here. Also, I'd like to raise to the challange after it having been got-at so much in the past.

Regards, David
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 3:47 pm   #15
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope).

A bit more research, which you may find helpful. It appears that: the split beam tube 09 appears as 09D with P1 green medium screen, or 09J with P11 with long screen.
Services numbers, depending on screen type are CV 1518, CV1596, CV2725, VCR518 and VCR518A. Alternative civilian number 3209 D or J.
Similar single beam tube is 26(D or J as screen), CV2727, CV2786. Civilian 3226 D or J.
The later (1951) version of 09 was 89 D or J, CV2193. Can be distinguished by the completely flat screen. I believe, but cannot confirm, that the CV2728 or civilian 3229 D or J is the same.
Perhaps someone out there has a copy of Wireless World, April 1937, which contained a table of CR tubes at page 331, or of Television and Short Wave World, December 1937. I will gladly swop it for a copy of my Wireless World table of Valve Data dated May 1940. Bill m0wpn
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 5:38 pm   #16
David Simpson
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope).

Once again Bill, I really appreciate your advice, thanks. Gerry at Crowthorn put me in touch with Phil Taylor who also was most helpful in a phone chat about 339 restoration.
Until I get the spares problem sorted out, I'll clean up the chassis, switches, pots & terminals. And re-spray the front plate & cover.

Regards, David
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 8:44 pm   #17
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope).

Hi David, If the scope originally had octal valve bases it would not have had 807's fitted as these were on UX bases. (but there wasan equivalent to the 807 with an octal base)

Ed
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Old 5th Aug 2010, 9:17 pm   #18
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope).

Ed, For the valves listed in the 339 Manual, I need 4 IO's, 2 UX5's & one B4. I've got some IO bases, so have asked if anyone has any UX5 and B4 bases in the wanted forum.
I just wondered if a mod came out at any time which used valves with B8B bases. Prahaps there was a shortage during the war, or post war, and someone at Cossor thought of fitting American valves. Prahaps canned valve bases were required for higher freq bandwidth operation. I just dont know.
These scopes were already obsolete when I joined the RAF in 1961, so I'd never seen one before. Also, I dont know for sure if the 3339 had exactly the same valve layout as the 339 as there doesn't seem to be a separate Manual from the 339 one available on The Valve Page site mentioned earlier, which I've downloaded.
I've sent an email query to the VMARS site, but no answer yet.

Regards, David
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Old 6th Aug 2010, 12:05 am   #19
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope).

David

I think that the 5B/254M is a Loctal based equivalent of the 807, so your suggestion could have legs.

Ron
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Old 6th Aug 2010, 8:05 am   #20
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Default Re: Cossor 3339 Oscillograph(Scope).

Ron, Thanks for that info. When I got the scope, there were 4 B8B's and one IO valvebases. V1 had been replaced by 2 semi-con.diodes, and V2 by a Z9768 s/c diode. So possibly the two 807 B/T's were replaced as you say, plus the two OM5 Pentodes by another B8B based equivalent. The only other Cossor v/mu Pentode I can find in that series of valves is a 7B7 which has a B8B base.

Regards, David
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