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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 2:53 pm   #101
robinshack
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Default Re: Old phones and the new BT internet-only phonelines

Having a bit of a sort out in my garage today, I put away my old BT Statesman push button phone somewhere "safe", and found a space where it was clearly visible when you walked in. (If you saw my garage, you would know what I meant!)
This has been kept for many years as we only use a cordless system. It is for proving if any fault is due to my landline and not the cordless phone, so as not to incur a callout charge.

It made me think of this thread and I wondered if BT would charge for a callout if your connection is ok but the "apparatus" your phone plugs in to is at fault. I expect they would?

I am still on adsl and use a phone landline, so my query may not be valid, as I am not certain exactly how the new system works.

Thanks, Rob
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 5:35 pm   #102
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Default Re: Old phones and the new BT internet-only phonelines

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It made me think of this thread and I wondered if BT would charge for a callout if your connection is ok but the "apparatus" your phone plugs in to is at fault. I expect they would?
"BT" wouldn't charge you unless you were a direct customer of BT for your POTS/Broadband service.

If you're not buying a phone/broadband service from BT, they have no mechanism to charge you.

Otherwise, your broadband/phone-service-provider _may_ pass-on to you any costs they incurred from OpenReach [who operate the legacy copper infrastructure] following a fault-investigation. Truth is, I nave never known this happen!
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 8:33 pm   #103
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Default Re: Old phones and the new BT internet-only phonelines

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A lot of the system X equipment was designed and manufactured by Plessey at Poole.

After the GEC/Siemens takeover it became GEC Plessey Telecommunications (GPT) ( they took over the second floor of No 1 building ISTR ) manufacturing still carried out at Poole (possibly other places) but GPT went defunct in 1998.


Mike T
Coventry was also heavily involved. A friend of mine was a manager there and seriously involved. He travelled extensively, including China in relation to that, and we even borrowed a small PABX version for an event in the local area. It was my job to run the cables and maintain the service on site. I used a batch of what seemed to be stainless field telephone cable (that I mentioned in another thread).

He even told me of a problem they had with an installation up in Scotland where a call box on an island kept losing connection to the exchange. It would last a couple of days, but by the time they got up there to investigate it had fixed itself. In the end they had to have someone 'camp out' up there. Someone parking a ship in the way of the radio link finally got diagnosed.

I know they were quite involved in the electronics. I still have some 'obsolete' EPROMS that he gave me back in the eighties.
Duncan- another problem did come to light. The radio hut was located such that the aerial was below the tideline, and when tide came in, lighn of site was obscured by sea.
Now that sounds a lot like you had direct experience of the issue. I wonder if you came across my friend at GEC / GPT. Dave Mein.
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Old 5th Apr 2022, 7:00 am   #104
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Default Re: Old phones and the new BT internet-only phonelines

I'm turning into an old cynic but isn't it the case that provision of a wired phone, especially where there is good mobile signal is just a reason to charge line rental alongside Broadband charges? A lot of people unplug their POTS phone and never use it.
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Old 5th Apr 2022, 10:36 am   #105
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Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

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So do the routers come with extra sockets now to facilitae the phone lines too? Getting the cables from my phones to the router will be a nightmare, without any doubt
Yes, that's the way things are going.

You can get DECT wireless phone jacks to make your corded phones cordless, but vintage ones will still need to have pulse to tone conversion done separately.
Or you could stick in a switch which will convert LD to TONE . I'd recommend something like a Panasonoic A SERIES ( IF it's equiped with simple tele cards ) or one of the KXT SERIES (308/616) which should be old enough for folks on this site to be interested in,and works with either Panasonoic system or POTS in any port, bearing in mind that the programming phone needsto be a system phone. Or the more modern 2 line ( 206??) which can be programmed with a POT.
Biggest problem with Panasonic kit is translating from text language into engineers speek. ( From memory POTS stands for plain old simple telephone as is a 706/746/232/332 etc)
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 1:26 pm   #106
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A couple of comments which I hope aren't controversial.

For 'normal' folk (as in not like us) they will not see any change whatsoever. Two years ago my parents (in their 70s / 80s) moved into a place that is FTTP and the 'phone line' is provided via a socket on the fibre modem. I plugged the base station for their existing cordless into said socket and even though my Dad is fairly tech savvy for someone of his age I'm pretty sure he has no real idea of any change.
And this is where it gets even more confusing. They have now had a letter telling them they are going to be changed. But they are already essentially on VoIP, but it seems either BT don't know, or want them to switch from the service provided by the FTTP Openreach modem, to being provided by the BT Smarthub. Why? Going to make the wiring way more complex because of where stuff is and sockets are.

I did mention the issue with power cuts, he hadn't thought of that, and mentioned UPSs as well, but with the way the system is it would mean four needed for the new arrangement, over just two otherwise. OTOH they have a much more reliable supply and I don't think they have had any power cuts in the 2 1/2 years since moving in.
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Old 16th Apr 2022, 7:42 pm   #107
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Default Re: Old phones and the new BT INternet-only phonelines

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So it's literally just one phone port. How is this supposed to work for multiple phones in the same building?
Unless you have multiple telephone lines coming into the house, your multiple 'phones are wired in parallel back to wiring at the master socket. By connecting that wiring to a cable with a telephone plug on the end, it should be possible to connect that wiring to the telephone socket on the router, so long as you don't exceed the REN supported by the router (which admittedly might not be as high as that supported by a traditional telephone line).
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Old 23rd Apr 2022, 1:06 pm   #108
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Default Re: Old phones and the new BT internet-only phonelines

Dave, from various posts /U tube video as posted on one of the GPO/FRIENDS etc on FB there's a post on how to do this. From my understanding, it's as simple as extending the house extension wiring from the old master socket ( after disconnecting the master/NTE from the house side) and fitting a telephone plug to the cable, to connect into the router. ( As you said). Again, I've asked about the REN, but to date no reply.
I'd imagine that BT will still comply with REN4, but will the other offshoots.
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Old 27th Apr 2022, 1:19 pm   #109
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Default Re: Old phones and the new BT internet-only phonelines

If the incoming "line" is purely over say glass and the terminal equipment at any point in the connection loses power or becomes faulty then no amount of VOIP is going to be of any use in an emergency -- i.e. a need for immediate medical assistance. It's no good saying "use your mobile" as first of all, believe it or not, not everybody has one and in my and my wife's case neither of our mobiles will work inside our good old fashioned brick built home. One is on vodafone and the other is on EE and apparently the 5g signal is not even available in our area.
I should say, that my working background was primarily in private telecoms. I once asked a "BT engineer" how ISDN worked and his response was that he had just been on a course on it and it used the latest PFM techniques. Pure Flipping Magic -- Or words to that effect !
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Old 27th Apr 2022, 2:26 pm   #110
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Default Re: Old phones and the new BT internet-only phonelines

Let's not bring ISDN into this please.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 1:57 pm   #111
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If the incoming "line" is purely over say glass and the terminal equipment at any point in the connection loses power or becomes faulty then no amount of VOIP is going to be of any use in an emergency -- i.e. a need for immediate medical assistance. It's no good saying "use your mobile" as first of all, believe it or not, not everybody has one and in my and my wife's case neither of our mobiles will work inside our good old fashioned brick built home. One is on vodafone and the other is on EE and apparently the 5g signal is not even available in our area.
AND- is local base station on the same mains substation that you use. If so, unless you are on the old belt braces and bit of string ( as in one of my other posts- forget it) or light a big fire and wait for either folks to read smoke signals, or fire brigade.
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Old 29th Apr 2022, 2:14 pm   #112
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Default Re: Old phones and the new BT internet-only phonelines

As everything that needed to be said about this has been said, its time to put this thread back on hook.

Cheers

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