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Hints, Tips and Solutions (Do NOT post requests for help here) If you have any useful general hints and tips for vintage technology repair and restoration, please share them here. PLEASE DO NOT POST REQUESTS FOR HELP HERE!

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Old 12th Aug 2005, 11:29 am   #21
Booby
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

I recall a newspaper article in which (I believe it happened in Germany?) in which council officials broke into a flat after non payment of rent etc. They found a clothed skeleton in a chair watching TV . They estimated the skeleton was of a man who had died about two years previous, the TV set was still on. Obviously everything was hunky dory to the outside world untill the man's bank account had dried up.
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Old 12th Aug 2005, 4:08 pm   #22
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

As Hybrid tellies suggests, we should all check and change our smoke alarm batteries. Well I change mine once a year, and get myself a good source of second hand 9 volt batteries to make up 90 Volt HT supplies from into the bargain, because they normally have plenty of life left in them.( I actually have to wait 2 years to do this, because I don't own 10 smoke alarms.) Not that I'm tight or anything....

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Old 12th Aug 2005, 4:55 pm   #23
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

Please stay on-topic chaps - the last two messages have nothing to do with vintage radio safety.
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Old 12th Aug 2005, 5:00 pm   #24
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Cool Re: Vintage radio safety

Does anyone remember a film (must be from the 1970s) -- was a public service announcement on British TV -- that reminded households to unplug and switch off at the light socket all their electrical appliances before going to bed?

You see this happy couple going about the house throwing the switch on the television set's wall socket and pulling the plugs out of other things. Set to some silly music.
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Old 12th Aug 2005, 7:47 pm   #25
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It seems that I have opened a can of worms by my intial thread about vintage radio safety!With regard to a lot of modern equipment,the on/off switch does not isolate the supply,it just goes to sleep or standby.Or if it does it only switches off the supply from the wall plug in transformer.Its not the power on stanby that matters(1 or 2 W),but the power it would take if a fault were to occur in the windings,a shorted turn could push this up to 50-100watts,this would get very hot indeed,not all are fitted with a thermal fuse,how would you know(,most are now sealed to prevent inspection),also what about the live lead from the secondary,the isulation here is usually very poor,a fault could happen here,a hot spot like what used to happen with electric blankets.Some of these plug in psu;s are now smps,even more of a hazard left unattended,(beside the illegal rf transmissions.)
I make sure that any piece of electrical equipment that comes on the premises is not left on standby,items that have a power switch are considered ok..Of course vintage radio sets do not comply with present standards,if it did then it would not be original,restoring is all about bringing it back to factory condition. Of course it would not meet the modern standards,(it would not be vintage then.)If you are worried about this,then buy a new solid state radio.
Vintage radio sets are not classed as an electrical appliance,they do not belong to class 1 or Class 2,no attempt should be made to PAT these,(they could be seriously damaged and made dangerous afterwards)
The earth connection to a radio is not for safety,but is part of the requiremnt of receiving a good signal.
I do not know of any instance of anybody being electrocuted using a vintage radio,in this respect they are safer than modern items.
People are electrocuted by interfering or meddling with the wiring.....leave well alone if you are not qualified.
Fires are caused by carelessness,leaving items energised and unattended.aided and abetted by the manufactures sales greed,(and disregard of IEE regs.)
There are just two things that are worth thinking about,1/ maybe to fit 3 core lead to an AC set(isolated chassis)and to fit isolation capacitor to earth socket, 2 /Make sure that the correct fuses are fitted.All this is in addition to complete overhaull.including a check on whether the transformer will stand up to the stress of the earth connection.
As mentioned ,a vintage set is perfectly safe,if it has been propery restored and overhaulled,and it will have a Power Switch.
I spent 10 years in college studying Electrical Engineering,worked in the Electrical distribution before qualifying in Radio Engineering, I find it very sad to see some of the contributions on this website,who seek to challenge the design and safety,and BS and IEE regs.
Most items today fail basic safety tests,there is no enforcement of the safety regs,its all down to the EEC.
So if you are serious about vintage radio,restore it.,find a qualified engineer to do the job,or leave alone and buy some modern EEC conforming junk!
More people are electrocuted in the USA every day than in GB,and with half the voltage!
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Old 14th Aug 2005, 9:24 pm   #26
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

Just to lighten things and amuse you, the following illustrations appeared in 'Everything Within' - A Library of Information for the Home (now long out of copyright). We've come a long way since the old dc mains days.
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Old 14th Aug 2005, 9:46 pm   #27
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

I remember a friend's father charging accumulators exactly like that from the light socket, innocent days

Mike
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Old 14th Aug 2005, 10:28 pm   #28
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

ISTR that the polarity of DC supplies was checked by poking the leads into a potato.

Graham
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Old 14th Aug 2005, 10:37 pm   #29
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by G4ILN
ISTR that the polarity of DC supplies was checked by poking the leads into a potato.

Graham
Yep I've got a book that suggests just that apparently the potato goes green around the live lead (probably not the only thing that would go green!!!)

Mike
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Old 14th Aug 2005, 10:49 pm   #30
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
Just to lighten things and amuse you, the following illustrations appeared in 'Everything Within' - A Library of Information for the Home (now long out of copyright). We've come a long way since the old dc mains days.
Gordon.

Blimey ! Someone else with that book. I have one as well, a 1935 edition, I think maybe the wireless section dates from a much earlier edition though; it has those very diagrams in it. The book belonged to my Grandmother, it is true to say it was the thing that first got me interested in things thermionic. The social letter writing and etiquette sections are well worth a read as well
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Old 15th Aug 2005, 5:45 am   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
Just to lighten things and amuse you, the following illustrations appeared in 'Everything Within' - A Library of Information for the Home (now long out of copyright). We've come a long way since the old dc mains days.
Gordon.
Oh yes we have come a long way,but look where its got us!
Charging batteries was easy then, across the light switch usually,not very efficent of course.
People had great respect for Electricity then,(DC is the real stuff, more dangerous than AC),people did not tinker with it as they do now,plus abandonment of most of the safety regulations and enfocement that went with the mains,its a wonder how we now survive.
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Old 15th Aug 2005, 8:31 am   #32
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by G4ILN
ISTR that the polarity of DC supplies was checked by poking the leads into a potato.

Graham
Clearly, one of the first instances of using chips in electronics.

Sorry!!
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Old 15th Aug 2005, 8:44 pm   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelect
Yep I've got a book that suggests just that apparently the potato goes green around the live lead (probably not the only thing that would go green!!!)

Mike
The book I found this in is "Radio TV & Electrical Repairs" published in 1948 and edited by Roy C. Norris technical editor of "Electrical and Radio trading"

Mike
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Old 16th Aug 2005, 8:18 am   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelect
The book I found this in is "Radio TV & Electrical Repairs" published in 1948 and edited by Roy C. Norris technical editor of "Electrical and Radio trading"

Mike
I used to have that book once - I remember the picture of a 'manual' washing machine and loads of TV circuits for each 'block'.
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Old 16th Aug 2005, 12:55 pm   #35
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

I agree that people are their own worst enemy - if I repair a set here (non-vintage!) it has to be tested and checked as an item in their place of work would be. But once they get home anything goes! I know if I cut off an extension lead attached with Sellotape and fit a correct plug as soon as they get home out come the scissors! Just nearly had ny nose blown off by an exploding degaussing thermsitor in a TV - why? - because the fuse had been wrapped around with silver foil! One reason small items are sealed for life is to keep fiddlers out. Although I worry about things being permanently connected to the mains, I must admit I've seen more serious damage caused by defective mains switches then faulty standby circuits. One reason for this is that a well designed circuit will fail in a predictable manner (FET shorting, say, protected by a fusible resistor) whereas an arcing mains switch may cause the material around it to burn in an unpredictable manner. Of course the answer might be to have both a high voltage AC and low voltage DC ring main around everry house!
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Old 16th Aug 2005, 1:05 pm   #36
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

As someone who was experienced a fire in an always-on power supply caused by an X-class capacitor failing (yes, never mind the spec. sheets, they can catch fire) I now really don't like continuously mains-powered stuff. The new nightmare as that sometimes the emc filter is on the wrong side of the on/off switch.
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Old 16th Aug 2005, 8:27 pm   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB
As someone who was experienced a fire in an always-on power supply caused by an X-class capacitor failing (yes, never mind the spec. sheets, they can catch fire) I now really don't like continuously mains-powered stuff. The new nightmare as that sometimes the emc filter is on the wrong side of the on/off switch.
Yes, I have winessed the silver foil fuse countess times in tv service. I have also seen sets where the mains buffer capacitors are wired before the switch and before fuses (when fitted) this though is with TV and not vintage radio. In general vintage radio is perfectly safe when operated correctly.and assuming that it is in proper condition.The switch will isolate the set from the supply,the switch would be a good QMB,and further more the set does not emit large amounts of RFI etc.
In contrast nearly everthing you buy today needs extensive modification to comply with safety standards,and fit suppression filters to try and reduce the harmonics.
It is the harmonic generation that is causing very big problems with our vintage radio,and I thought we had this new EMC regulation to stop this!
None of the regulations are propery enforced today,but this is no surprise,in this lawless country.
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Old 16th Aug 2005, 8:41 pm   #38
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Quote:
I have also seen sets where the mains buffer capacitors are wired before the switch and before fuses
Strange that Zak should say that. I'm currently restoring a KW Vanguard Amateur Transmitter made in the UK in about 1958. Everything except the mains transformers, of which there are three, is wired before the single pole switch. I'll be replacing the caps from Live and Neutral to chassis with Class Ys, but they'll always be live unless I pull the mains plug.

Graham.
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Old 16th Aug 2005, 8:43 pm   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G4ILN
I'll be replacing the caps from Live and Neutral to chassis with Class Ys, but they'll always be live unless I pull the mains plug.

Graham.
I've also seen this with Creed teleprinter equipment, and had the odd teleprinter trip the ELCB due to leaky filter caps, even before it was switched on.

Jim.
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Old 16th Aug 2005, 9:18 pm   #40
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Default Re: Vintage radio safety

My parents ran a 1983 Ferguson TX9 telly until recently.

One day it went bang and emitted a lot of smoke. The cause was nothing more than a short in the mans supression inductor, that's wired before the mains switch and fuse

Lucky I'd put a 3A fuse in the plug (it had the ubiquitous 13A original one when I plucked it off the skip), or else the feeble mains flex would have probably started glowing

Nick.
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