UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 21st Jun 2022, 12:58 pm   #1
ben
Dekatron
 
ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 6,682
Default TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

Am trying to fix this set from circa 1978. It's a SECAM VHF/UHF, with 625-819 capability. info

After replacing posistor, fuse and B250 rectifier it powers up and the sound works but just get this bright green raster. Need to troubleshoot the video circuitry, I'm hoping this is not some H-K short or something 'orrible. Anyone have a circuit diagram? I doubt there was a UK version though...Anybody recognize it? Final picture is a 3600 found online which might be easier to see/recognize.

The plastic struts that keep the sub PCBs in place are all broken with age so I am hoping that the cause may yet turn out to be something simple like a cracked joint.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1852.jpg
Views:	176
Size:	74.4 KB
ID:	259517   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1859.jpg
Views:	161
Size:	61.1 KB
ID:	259518   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1854.jpg
Views:	169
Size:	97.8 KB
ID:	259519   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1858.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	74.1 KB
ID:	259520   Click image for larger version

Name:	telefunen 3600 tv palcolor.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	89.2 KB
ID:	259521  

__________________
Regards,
Ben.
ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Jun 2022, 8:22 am   #2
jhalphen
Hexode
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 267
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

Hello to all,
Hi Ben,

I've posted a request for a schematic or full service manual on our French RetroTechnique forum. As you found, the TV is identified in the database, but no tech info.
Maybe some ex-TV tech has some data and will scan it.
The TV is 819 B&W + SECAM 625 colour so should trigger some interest.

You can monitor replies by watching here periodically:

https://forum.retrotechnique.org/t/r...ssis-914/94079

Hope something turns up,

Best Regards
jhalphen
Paris/France
jhalphen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Jun 2022, 8:36 am   #3
ben
Dekatron
 
ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 6,682
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

That's very kind of you jhalphen. I speak fluent French so I will take a look at the forum.
__________________
Regards,
Ben.
ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Jun 2022, 10:52 am   #4
1955APREN
Hexode
 
1955APREN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Market Drayton, Shropshire, UK.
Posts: 455
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

Hi Ben ref your 3600 I seem to remember this chassis was used in one of the BRC range of 14ins ctv Had thyristor line output stage. Different set to your 3309
Regards
Derrick
1955APREN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Jun 2022, 5:38 pm   #5
its ur aerial
Hexode
 
its ur aerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ryde, Isle of Wight, UK.
Posts: 264
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1955APREN View Post
Hi Ben ref your 3600 I seem to remember this chassis was used in one of the BRC range of 14ins ctv Had thyristor line output stage. Different set to your 3309
Regards
Derrick
The chassis looks familiar, with that PCB on the Scan Coils, but I think the 14inch Thorn Portabel you are referring to was a Normande , with the Thyristor line O/P and I think they had a VHF Tuner as well, they were a stop gap just before the 14 inch TX9 mK1.
I cant recall any model numbers now.
Ken G6HZG.
__________________
Life is not Hollywood, life is Cricklewood.
its ur aerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Jun 2022, 6:08 pm   #6
Red to black
Nonode
 
Red to black's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 2,301
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

Yes, the Ferguson 3787 was made by Normende (FV1 chassis) and as you say was a stop gap model whilst waiting for the TX9 chassis to finish being developed.

The Thorn (Nordmende) 3787 was a completely different chassis to the OPs Telefunken set.
__________________
I don't suffer from Insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
Red to black is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Jun 2022, 11:25 am   #7
ben
Dekatron
 
ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 6,682
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

Brief update.
I removed and cleaned the contacts on all the sub PCBs in the signal/RGB stages and touched up a few suspect joints. No effect. I have to say the standard of soldering in this set is first class. Especially when you consider it is very cramped in there, with a few components that run hot by nature, and will have been used in a hot environment for decades.

I discovered the chroma board had a small daughterboard rather crudely mounted to it, obviously modified at some later stage. Maybe for PAL? Since I picked up the set here in Madrid from a French ex-pat, that would make sense. There is one loose wire from it, which I have no idea where it was connected.

I tried adjusting the R,G and B drives and the blue had absolutely no effect, the red could be varied slightly. Disconnecting the green output still gave the green screen, this time with a few retrace lines. So it may be a HK short after all

Next I will try the old trick of isolating the heater winding (been a few years since I last did that!)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1874.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	69.4 KB
ID:	259617   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1875.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	88.6 KB
ID:	259618  
__________________
Regards,
Ben.
ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Jun 2022, 12:47 pm   #8
jhalphen
Hexode
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 267
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

Hi to all,

Hi Ben, member Bozec uploaded yesterday a 16 page pdf document on the RetroTechnique topic link given yesterday, did you see it?

https://forum.retrotechnique.org/t/r...ssis-914/94079

It starts with lengthy data about the infrared remote control Tx/Rx & continues with full TV schematics.

I have a hard time reading the German style schematic notations spread over several pages.

Hope it corresponds with your set, keep us informed,

Best Regards
jhalphen
Paris/France
jhalphen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Jun 2022, 4:36 pm   #9
marceljack
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Paris, France.
Posts: 56
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben View Post
I discovered the chroma board had a small daughterboard rather crudely mounted to it, obviously modified at some later stage. Maybe for PAL?
Hi Ben,
I don't think this board is a PAL add-on as according to a member of retrotechnique this set is PAL/SECAM from factory.
In addition much more components woud be required to add PAL to a SECAM only set (a 4,43 MHz crystal amongst others).
This is easy to check: if the set is SECAM only it should have ony a TCA640 + a TCA650 in front of the TDA3501 (assuming the diagram published by Bozec is the right one, it shows a TCA640 and a TDA3501 but a page is missing inbetween).

If it is PAL/SECAM it should have a TBA540 and a 4,43 MHz crystal in addition.
Since the diagram published by Bozec misses some pages, I could not check.
This small board added later is probably to allow SECAM line identification since at time of production of this TV it was certainly frame identfication only.

Kind regards
Hervé

Last edited by marceljack; 23rd Jun 2022 at 4:43 pm.
marceljack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Jun 2022, 7:07 pm   #10
marceljack
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Paris, France.
Posts: 56
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

Some news:
In fact the diagram of the service manual on retrotechnique is complete regarding the chroma part and it shows that theTV described in this manual is SECAM only since it has only a TCA640 and a TCA650 (no TBA540).
Ben, could you indicate which ICs are on the chroma module of your TV ?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	chroma 12.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	39.0 KB
ID:	259744  
marceljack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jun 2022, 9:30 am   #11
ben
Dekatron
 
ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 6,682
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

There's a TBA540 (to some of whose pins that extra pcb with the transistors has been soldered), a TCA640, and TCA 650.

So far I have tried to tune the set to a Pal G UHF VCR modulator without success ( I know the screen is just a green fog but I was hoping for some audio at least). The tuner panel seems pretty much the same as PAL B/G sets of the same vintage: 3 band selector positions (BI 1-4, BIII 5-12 then UHF 21-68).
__________________
Regards,
Ben.
ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jun 2022, 3:38 pm   #12
marceljack
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Paris, France.
Posts: 56
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben View Post
There's a TBA540 (to some of whose pins that extra pcb with the transistors has been soldered), a TCA640, and TCA 650.
So your TV is PAL/SECAM without doubt.
According to one of your photos, it should cover european (B/G), french (E/L) and belgian (C/F) norms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben View Post
So far I have tried to tune the set to a Pal G UHF VCR modulator without success ( I know the screen is just a green fog but I was hoping for some audio at least). The tuner panel seems pretty much the same as PAL B/G sets of the same vintage: 3 band selector positions (BI 1-4, BIII 5-12 then UHF 21-68).
Probably a problem in the RF/IF part ...
marceljack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Jun 2022, 7:35 am   #13
marceljack
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Paris, France.
Posts: 56
Default Re: TELEFUNKEN 3309 (914 chassis) TV

I am just thinking of a possible reason why you found no sound: at the time of production of this set, a law was passed in Germany stating that the sound of TVs should be muted when there was no picture at the same time (in practice: no sync).
This law was supposed to prevent people from listening to police transmissions (it was at a time when there were terrorist actions in Germany).
That might be the reason why you hear no sound.
If this is the case, it shoud be relatively easy to unmute the sound (the mute command comes from the sync circuitry).
marceljack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT. The time now is 5:09 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2021, Paul Stenning.