How bad does it have to be before its a scrapper set?

[Boater Sam]

Just have much work and expenditure are you prepared for to preserve a radio set?
If its something unusual, valuable or rare it is probably worth a few pounds and a lot of time to save it.
I am not talking round Ekcos here, just run of the mill domestic radios of the 1940s and 1950s.

As an example, a Pye 19A woody, from 1948, as mentioned in the "Re-bodgery" thread on here.

A mains set with MW, LW, and 3 bandspread SW.
Nice blue Pye chassis, no rust, a shapely wood cabinet, no worm but top marked and the weird composition cream trim distorted. 2 outer large knobs missing, dents in the expanded ally speaker grill and a bit of damage to the screen print on the tuning scale glass where the retaining bar at the back presses on it. No back board but the fittings are there.
Switches work, volume control is intact, may be scratchy but likely to be OK as the on/off switch (working) is part of the tone switch, it won't of been turned so often.

Its been worked on, 7 new yellow 1000v capacitors, new 3 core mains lead, some raggedy soldering but seen worse. ( apologies if you did the work, but I speak as I find )
Mains transformer checks out OK, dial lamps have filaments. Loudspeaker is intact and works well. Tuning mechanism all working. No damage apparent to the aerial or oscillator coils and the IF cans look un-twiddled, whether the cores are still attached is another matter.

New looking EBL31 but its a base only conversion from an EBL1 side contact so its a tall one, the top cap connection is short and its the wrong size for the valve cap, A CCH35 instead of ECH35 so a bit out on the heater volts, and an equivalent ARP34 instead of EF39. AZ31 rectifier is serviceable.

Delving a bit deeper I find 2 output transformers! The original on top is lacking a primary, not unusual, but the other underneath is OK back feeding the tone network via the original which has a feedback winding, most odd, very creative solution if it worked.

So cosmetically not too horrible, making a back is a bit of work.
Finding 2 suitable knobs should be simple. The cream trim is another matter, it may need a constructive solution.
Electrically, one valve, an output transformer to rewind, a few bits to tidy up.

Its potentially a good set considering its a 3 + rectifier short superhet, with 3 short waves if you like that sort of thing, I haven't seen too many of these around either.

Now I will ask your opinion, How much time is it worth? Would you restore it, just fix it, or break it for spares?

Advice and comment please, Sam.

[Mike. Watterson]

For most people it's a hobby, fun, so the time is irrelevant.
Cost is harder to quantify and can depend on your situation. Some people spend 10s of thousands on their "hobby".

It's very satisfying not just getting something working but restoring a semblance of originality. Rarer or older sets it can be more important to keep originality than having it actually work.

Someday the 1950s woodies may be important. Many of the sought after Bakelite models are actually common because they were cheap. Such as a DAC90a or Toaster FB10. The multiband Pye models (even without the tuned RF stage) are significant artefacts and far better and more expensive sets in their days.

It's partly up to the individual. I think it's a shame even common models getting turned into Bluetooth speakers.

I've scrapped some totally hopeless sets (a Philips with tuning scale, cut out valve sockets and audio TX missing).

Do whatever you want, it's your radio?

[paulsherwin]

It's a purely personal decision. Some members here take great pride in restoring complete wrecks. On the other hand, there's no reason to feel ashamed of scrapping what is a mundane low value set of little interest to anybody and no practical use.

[Richard_FM]

I guess it depends on how much time, money & effort you want to put into restoring a set, assuming you have the right skills & resources to do it.

Some potential basket cases have been returned to working order by members, even if they are a "Trigger's Broom" partwise.

[TonyDuell]

Personally I find the 'basket cases' more rewarding.

Many people can change 'that capacitor' and rub over the case. But it takes more skill to track down obscure faults, rewind coils, work out replacements for otherwise unobtainable parts, repolish a wood case, etc.

Ultimately, as other have said, it's a hobby. It is not supposed to make financial sense (I once heard that you work at the day job to get money to spend on hobbies which are effectively money sinks). If you enjoy it, then do it. No, you will not make money doing it.

[Boater Sam]

There has been no financial sense in repairing radios for long since, never made any money out of my hobbies with the exception of cars.
Good to get others views though.
It is enjoyable salvaging a dead duck but will anyone appreciate it? I write up successes on here and then never hear from anyone.

[vinrads]

I agree Sam It's a good job we enjoy the restoration ,the bigger the challenge the better the feeling you get having restored it , it's best not to think about the time spent and money , there is something special about bringing a set back to life . Mick.

[Cobaltblue]

I agree with pretty much everything said.

From my perspective it's always sad to break a set but it's usually due to storage problems.

I have passed on a number of sets but it can be tough to even give sets away sometimes mostly due to postage and of course many also have storage problems.

I have sold or given away more than 100 radios in the last 5 years and broke a further 30 or so.

Around another 100 need to go in the next couple of years hopefully I won't need to break many.

Cheers

Mike T

[Skywave]

Originally Posted by Mike. Watterson

{With} Rare or old sets it can be more important to keep originality {rather} than having them actually work.

A sentiment that I've never understood.

Al.

[TonyDuell]

Nor me. The purpose of a radio set is to receive and demodulate (etc) radio signals. And for me the purpose of a vintage computer is to run programs. They are not there to look pretty. They are there to work.

So while I always keep the circuit design as close to the original as I can (I would not, for exampe 'restore' a vintage record player using an IC-based amplfier, I would not 'restore' a vintage clock by fitting a quartz movement, I would not 'restore' a vintage computer by fitting a modern microcontroller board running an emulator), I am happy to use modern components that are electrically correct (e.g. a modern capacitor to replace a 'waxie').

[ekjdm14]

Originally Posted by Boater Sam

There has been no financial sense in repairing radios for long since, never made any money out of my hobbies with the exception of cars.
Good to get others views though.
It is enjoyable salvaging a dead duck but will anyone appreciate it? I write up successes on here and then never hear from anyone.

Do you appreciate it and get enjoyment out of reviving the set? That's surely what matters, and if the answer is no & there's no takers who would enjoy fixing or restoring it then you shouldn't feel bad about using it for parts. After all, at least the parts would then go toward a set that did give you some satisfaction and enjoyment. (for what it's worth, I enjoy reading the success stories on occasion and may not comment on them as I feel I have little of value to add, but it's still good to read & even inspirational too).

End of the day, if you took it on at some point then it's yours to do as you see fit. I also agree that there's not a whole lot of point to having something that's 100% original but can't be used for fear of letting the smoke out, If someone wants to go that route then fair enough but a lot of the fun for me is in using old radios etc for their intended purpose & if that means sacrificing a few original waxies for modern parts/rotted rubber wire for silicone or suchlike then so be it, although I'm sure a lot of sets find it a rude awakening to find themselves playing some of what passes for modern music at first power-up.

[Mike. Watterson]

Originally Posted by Skywave

A sentiment that I've never understood.

Restoration vs Repair vs Preservation. Some line drawing is obvious, like putting an LM386 IC to replace an output valve.

With a 1950s or 1960s set we might not worry about originality or preservation, most of us are not running museums.

But a 1936 model?
What about a 1926 model?

If you are collector rather than restoring a few sets to use on a daily basis, are you going to listen to a different set each day?

It's not as black and white as I used to think it was. With my 1962 German valve AM/FM set I'm concerned about being able to use it almost daily. The selenium bridge replaced by silicon.
On my 1929 suitcase set the couple of replacement ceramic caps are tucked behind the enormous paper caps that have one connection cut. On the bread board 1929 model I fitted a small transformer inside the case of the interstage transformer and small ceramic caps inside the paper caps, leaving the paper body in place but one wire cut.

I've been asked to help get going some 1925 & 1926 models. Tricky actually.

Actually it's pretty easy to have German / Dutch late 1950s early 1960s fairly authentic as those often used plastic film and ceramic caps and electrolytics reform. Valve rectifiers in earlier sets can often be replaced with valves (which is easier on the electrolytics), but selenium rectifiers have to be replaced with silicon.

I'd rather replace parts un-authentically but not redesigning it, to get it going. However I do understand why for some "restoration", especially older sets is about cleaning, not replacement.

There is a Computer & Communications museum at NUI, Galway. Some of us last week were discussing my clear out of nearly 1K CD/DVDs and many hundreds of floppies, dozens of monitors, PCs (inc and IBM AT and PCW8512, neither anything like original state), some CRT TVs and I wondered should I have contacted them. Most of it was working.

Someone wondered was there even a need, couldn't you just put Raspberry PI's in beige cases and run emulators?

"What about the keyboards and displays?" I asked.

-- "Won't the vintage computers and radios* wear out if used every day?"

"Perhaps some of the gear is only demonstrated on special occasions, like my own 1929 suitcase radio?"

[* I think Amateur & Commercial two-way radio rather than domestic radio sets]

I used to think people that simply collected stuff and "preserved" it rather than making it operational were mad. I've decided it's not so simple.

Especially if it's been got at. I've been given the non-gram socket version of this 1928 model:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/marcon...iphone_53.html
I think it it's all there. Completely dismantled (Why?), inc the panel facing taken off the cabinet.
No worm.
The cone drive motor has one coil missing and the cone is badly crumpled and torn.
The valves are all missing, however I think I have the same or similar as spares.

Looking at an advert I think there was no speaker cloth, the cloth in the photo is an addition.

It will be an "interesting" rebuild. OTOH, the current repair / restore is an Ever Ready Model H. Knobs and cloth not original. I changed two capacitors under the chassis without disguise. It goes about as well as you'd expect a two valve TRF with a longwire, that it sounds better than any modern pocket or small portable AM/FM set!

If you've only a few dozen 1950s and 1960s radio sets the decisions are simple. If you have 200 to 300 from the birth of radio to the last "classic" sets like 1980s Yaesu FT101ZD MkIII or Sony ICF2001D then decisions get harder.

Each person has different resources and circumstances.

[music-centre]

I hate breaking any up for spares really unless its making one very good one out of 2 of the same model that both have missing parts/damaged cases. If I break a set up for stock parts that I might need in the future I never seem to be able to find the bits when I do want them
Not one you see so often the 19A, I don't know what can be done with that plastic trim though, I have got one where it is really bad.
Steve.

[Boater Sam]

Originally Posted by music-centre

Not one you see so often the 19A, I don't know what can be done with that plastic trim though, I have got one where it is really bad.
Steve.

Agree, its the first one i've had so I'm looking for a solution to that trim.
I will be looking for a flexible moulding to substitute, any ideas?

The cabinet is quite crude with the edge of the front ply showing top and sides but an interesting shape with non vertical sides. An easy one to refinish, just this awkward trim to sort.

Any chance of knobs and a back? Go on, encourage me please!

[Uncle Bulgaria]

Originally Posted by Mike. Watterson

Someone wondered was there even a need, couldn't you just put Raspberry PI's in beige cases and run emulators?

I'm an Architect in the real world. This is an argument that comes up a lot, with modern construction materials able to simulate to the untrained or hurried eye the materials or techniques of the past.

With the Notre Dame tower discussions happening at the moment, one architect in the Guardian wrote (rather snootily I thought) about those who fear for inauthentic methods misleading the gullible public. I'm one of those pearl-clutchers - I've come to think that there is a certain honesty in building that is rather like the honesty one hopes to find in one's relations with other people. Treating life or buildings like a theatre set means one gets actors.

For example, I see PVC cladding masquerading as wood as a travesty. We sully our landscape and our built environment with the ever-decreasing quality of buildings, as they tap tropes of history more and more lazily. I think this means we miss the point of the discussion, which is that we are destroying the world for the sake of saving pennies, instead of encouraging craft, skill, experience, sensitivity. We reap what we sow, etc.

Originally Posted by Mike. Watterson

I used to think people that simply collected stuff and "preserved" it rather than making it operational were mad. I've decided it's not so simple.

Quite right. It's a complicated situation!

From my point above, my position is as one whose electronics hobby is one of many. I find interesting things, often by chance, and make them work because they are of a higher workmanship than a current equivalent; they are less complicated in operation and concept (I can't stand the current 'smart' everything, but it's now hugely expensive to buy hi-fis with fewer buttons, much like cameras that only need sensitivity, aperture, shutter speed, yet I come across 'professional' photographers who don't understand this relationship because the computer decides this for them) and/or they are vastly cheaper than something modern!

I make my changes to keep function, using modern components clearly. I think this is 'honest' as above.

In buildings, I am wary of the current trend to 'preserve' which I think gives false importance to some set period, and by doing so makes us less aware of its relevance to us.

There are many aspects of 14th Century land stewardship and rural management that we would do well to heed with our knowledge of soil biology and the modern plague of loneliness and lack of self-worth. Buildings historically were recycled and added onto as needs changed. Now, it's easy with modern tools to rip them down and start again, so we lose richness in favour of fields of developer houses that require cars, have no local amenities or reason to exist in that place. There is no genius loci, and however fatuous that sounds, I think it matters to society.

I think we as a species are making ourselves stupid by our reliance on computers. Give me a hot valve. The anarchist Raoul Vaneigem has a great thought: “Down with a world in which the guarantee that we will not die of starvation has been purchased with the guarantee that we will die of boredom.”

Originally Posted by Mike. Watterson

Each person has different resources and circumstances.

Quite right again.

The Ferrograph I've been taking advantage of this forum for would be a 'scrapper' to many. I got it free, don't have a reel to reel valve set and thought it would be marvellous as a service to the people who made it, to get it going again. Labours of love...

[Uncle Bulgaria]

More a comment for the OP:

Have you considered a repair that is more 'obvious'? I'm thinking of the trim, or knobs here.

There is that Japanese technique of 'Kintsugi' in which broken pottery is repaired with some sort of lacquer that includes gold dust, making the repaired crack a point of beauty.

It's an approach that appeals to me - the scars of use making obvious the care that has been taken in returning the object to use.

[Boater Sam]

Thank you for that insight I can only agree.

I do admit to going totally silly restoring a very early set to as original once in a while, re-stuffing everything ( including valves if I have to) so that it looks and works as it came from the factory. I get satisfaction so it's OK.

On the other hand I have been known to do a speed repair, absolute minimal replacements in the shortest time possible, that is also fun occasionally.

To get back to the 19A in question and your last comment, Kintsugi, it's an idea that appeals but now I have to decide whether this set is too rare to refinish in a colour with bling knobs and a see through rear panel.

I need help. Please! More!

[The Philpott]

The original quandary in Post No.1 might achieve more clarity if two assemblies were available and you had them sitting side by side with their 'clothes off' so to speak. May become apparent which one is to be a donor- but obviously not feasible with rare sets. I suppose posting successes and experiencing a lack of feedback doesn't necessarily mean your experiences won't be of great value to someone in the future....I am getting into the habit of documenting and dating any work done on old stuff, even to the extent of pencil writing inside (where there is nowhere safe to include a piece of card or paper.)

The Kintsugi approach reminds me of Dibnah's reticence to approve replacement stone being left bright yellow in historic buildings in town centres, contrasting sharply with the soot encrusted original structure.

Dave

[Boater Sam]

Originally Posted by The Philpott

The Kintsugi approach reminds me of Dibnah's reticence to approve replacement stone being left bright yellow in historic buildings in town centres, contrasting sharply with the soot encrusted original structure.

Dave

Not sure whether he was right or wrong, but then Fred did spend much of his life soot encrusted! Lovely guy, I can empathise with him in many respects.

[mark2collection]

Hi Sam,

It depends what the set means to you now, what it'll mean when it's finished and if it's 'a keeper'.

I've done repairs to the house in the past, where my repairs tell a very definite story, but glaringly so(!) In the end, had to revisit the repair, as good as my efforts were, it wasn't right and living with it was proof enough.

Very recently I wrote up the successful repair of a very popular 50's bakelite set, which too was a borderline scrapper. It allowed me to apply my current skills, trial new techniques, engage with other forum members and 'made' me attend various events to find the missing parts or indeed, make my own.

I now have a wonderful example of its type, fully working. I'm not just happy with it, but proud too.

Mark