Where to start...? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

computerman · 15th May 2017, 8:28 pm

Hi all, new to the forum and have a very general question.

Now, I'm aware that many of you will consider this as sacrilege but I need a vintage radio for a project. Essentially I will be ripping out the innards completely and replacing them with something entirely different; all I need therefore is a nice suitable cabinet.

Something from the 40's / 50's would look aesthetically ideal, but it needs to be able to accomodate two speakers for a stereo output. I've looked at a lot of internal pictures of various models and most would seem suitable for the project.

Wood is essential (I'd be worried about cracking anything bakelite or similar). Something like the Pye Rancher R37, or the P75?

So the question is - if you will forgive me for what I am about to do (!) - what suggestions does anyone have, and where is the best place to buy such a thing to give it a new lease of life? The ideal candidate would of course be non-working (it would be criminal to rip apart something that has beenb painstakingly repaired or restored - I get that!)

Thanks in advance for any input, and apologies again for any offence caused!!

paulsherwin · 15th May 2017, 8:52 pm

Although most of us would prefer people not to do this sort of thing, 1950s woodies tend to be the least cherished type of old radio, so at least you're choosing the least worst option.

I wouldn't worry about stereo. The speakers will be so close together that you won't hear a stereo soundstage anyway. You can easily feed a stereo source into a mono amp.

Why gut the radio though? Most 50s woodies have a 'gram' input, which is effectively a line level input to the valve amplifier. You can fit a Bluetooth module inside fairly easily, or have an FM/DAB box hooked up outside. In fact you can connect pretty much anything to the gram input. You could even have a Raspberry Pi Zero inside, controlled remotely by a mobile phone.

Flecktarnfisher · 15th May 2017, 9:09 pm

Computerman,
This is the same issue I'm facing currently. I have a wooden 50s radio that I want to convert. Its tough one but if you find a dodgy one at a car boot or something then I'm sure you would be forgiven because at least you would've saved it.
Lloyd

PsychMan · 15th May 2017, 9:12 pm

What did you want to do exactly? As Paul says there are numerous options available that dont involve junking a nice old radio.

As long as you get a set with a mains transformer for safety, you can run all sorts into the gram input and get decent authentic sound with arguably much less work than trying to make the case fit something else.

computerman · 15th May 2017, 11:25 pm

Thanks for the quick replies! Was expecting abuse at my sacriligeous plans!

The plan (as guessed by paulsherwin!) is indeed to use a Raspberry Pi - in this case a v3B with a suitable amp board, such as the JustBoom devices, running PiCorePlayer. I've been a longtime user of the Squeezebox devices, but wanted something that looked a little more aesthetically pleasing.

With regard to sacrificing the guts, I was intending to start with a non-working unit anyway. My repair / restoration skills aren't necessarily up to scratch to bring a non-worker back to life, and I wouldn't want to trash a working model. It's purely about the visual impression for me.

The stereo requirement isn't essential (I agree on the separation point) - merely a 'nice to have'. Most of my other audio gear is reasonably high-end (not quite audiophile perhaps but aspiring to be!) so I'm trying to achieve the best audio quality I can from mostly 24bit (or at worst 16bit FLAC) in the most easily-achievable container.

Something like some of these ideas (I hope this link is ok to post?):

https://www.hifiberry.com/build/gallery/

Thanks for the comments so far. I guessed that the '50s woodies' were least desirable to collectors and restorers due to the sheer quantity available on eBay...

'LIVEWIRE?' · 16th May 2017, 8:33 am

Two Points regarding stereo in small cabinets (1) I have two Ferguson DAB radios which are no more than 9" wide. Both have two, admittedly small, speakers fitted and are stereo, though the separation isn't great. (2) in the 80s & early 90s many portable radio/cassette players were fitted with a 'stereo wide' or 'spatial stereo' control to (attempt to) overcome this limitation. These worked by taking a portion of signal from the RH Channel, feeding it out of phase to the LH Channel and vice-versa, giving the impression that the soundstage was 'wider' than the player. If the OP wants to fit two speakers into a 50s woody, a circuit of this type could be included as well.

radioman · 16th May 2017, 9:06 am

How about a Bush AC11?
https://www.vintage-radio.com/manufa...sets/bush.html

Andy

computerman · 16th May 2017, 10:28 am

Ah... that looks ideal! The 31, 34 or 41 might also suit. Thanks!! Presumably these are fairly common, and not too expensive? FWIW obviously I don't need the internal components so they would be free to a good home if anyone needs them (I won't use a sledgehammer!).

I'd rather not go down the route of artificial processing of the signAl if possible, although indeed it certainly could be done with the Pi...

Craig Sawyers · 16th May 2017, 10:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by computerman

Thanks for the quick replies! Was expecting abuse at my sacrilegious plans!

Nah - we're a chilled bunch here. Mind you there are some forums/mailing lists that are really awful. Mainly audio related and populated by trolls. Personally I only join chilled lists - like this one.

The other one worth looking at is http://golbornevintageradio.co.uk/forum/index.php

Craig

paulsherwin · 16th May 2017, 10:59 am

As I suggested earlier, there is usually plenty of room inside a 50s woodie to fit anything you want. The heater supply is mostly 6.3V which can be rectified and regulated to give a standard 5VDC. And you get to keep that authentic valve sound!

Repairing old radios isn't difficult if you have basic electronics skills - it's usually just a question of changing some leaky old capacitors.

Radio Wrangler · 17th May 2017, 9:06 am

Basic electronic skills, even advanced electronic skills can be acquired. Nobody was born with them.

As you do a bit and chat about it a bit, you inevitably pick up the lingo and start to find out what is usual. Learning is unavoidable if you do things. Without timetables, exams, pressure, it's even enjoyable. There's still an incentive, the more knowledge you acquire, the more you can do but this is a positive, gentle, incentive.

Most of all, have fun!

David

pichacker · 17th May 2017, 3:21 pm

How about a nice compromise. A woodie has plenty of room to mount what you like in the cabinet. Leave the original guts inside (disconnected) and just have your new stuff totally separate but linked to the original controls if possible?

Phil G4SPZ · 17th May 2017, 6:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichacker

...A woodie has plenty of room to mount what you like in the cabinet. Leave the original guts inside (disconnected) and just have your new stuff totally separate...

I have done this several times for museum exhibits, even with rare and valuable sets, by mounting a separate loudspeaker, audio amp and MP3 player on the radio's back panel. An external 5 volt regulated PSU gets round any electrical safety or PAT test issues. I have even dangled a 6 volt 150mA dial lamp bulb in a holder behind the radio's own dial to make it appear energised. The modifications can be removed in moments, leaving the radio untouched and in original condition.

jofusradio · 17th May 2017, 7:50 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

Most 50s woodies have a 'gram' input, which is effectively a line level input to the valve amplifier. You can fit a Bluetooth module inside fairly easily, or have an FM/DAB box hooked up outside. In fact you can connect pretty much anything to the gram input. You could even have a Raspberry Pi Zero inside, controlled remotely by a mobile phone.

Very interested in the option of adding Bluetooth, is there anywhere this is shown with diagrams etc.

computerman · 18th May 2017, 1:19 am

Radio Wrangler - I do intend to climb the learning curve, but it's a slow and steady process! Appreciate the encouragement though!

Pichacker - Not sure how I'd manage to get any original controls working without more severe butchery than I'd planned. It's possible to add rotary encoders and buttons to a Raspberry Pi but attaching them securely to the originl buttons might require some extreme Dremmel work, patience and lots of glue! It would be in the 'nice-to-have' category though - certainly a power and a volume control. This would be my choice: https://shop.max2play.com/en/rotary-encoder.html

Phil G4SPZ - I would indeed be using modern speaker(s) and separate power supply for the Raspberry Pi and it's screen and amp / digi out card. I like the idea of backlighting the dial - genious idea!

Jofusradio - I intend to do this; as I'm using a Raspberry Pi 3B (which has bluetooth on board) so I can do it with Max2Play (see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt96_jnxnnU )

15th May 2017, 8:28 pm	#1
computerman Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 6	Where to start...? Hi all, new to the forum and have a very general question. Now, I'm aware that many of you will consider this as sacrilege but I need a vintage radio for a project. Essentially I will be ripping out the innards completely and replacing them with something entirely different; all I need therefore is a nice suitable cabinet. Something from the 40's / 50's would look aesthetically ideal, but it needs to be able to accomodate two speakers for a stereo output. I've looked at a lot of internal pictures of various models and most would seem suitable for the project. Wood is essential (I'd be worried about cracking anything bakelite or similar). Something like the Pye Rancher R37, or the P75? So the question is - if you will forgive me for what I am about to do (!) - what suggestions does anyone have, and where is the best place to buy such a thing to give it a new lease of life? The ideal candidate would of course be non-working (it would be criminal to rip apart something that has beenb painstakingly repaired or restored - I get that!) Thanks in advance for any input, and apologies again for any offence caused!!

15th May 2017, 8:52 pm	#2
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,967	Re: Where to start...? Although most of us would prefer people not to do this sort of thing, 1950s woodies tend to be the least cherished type of old radio, so at least you're choosing the least worst option. I wouldn't worry about stereo. The speakers will be so close together that you won't hear a stereo soundstage anyway. You can easily feed a stereo source into a mono amp. Why gut the radio though? Most 50s woodies have a 'gram' input, which is effectively a line level input to the valve amplifier. You can fit a Bluetooth module inside fairly easily, or have an FM/DAB box hooked up outside. In fact you can connect pretty much anything to the gram input. You could even have a Raspberry Pi Zero inside, controlled remotely by a mobile phone.

15th May 2017, 9:09 pm	#3
Flecktarnfisher Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Southampton, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 5	Re: Where to start...? Computerman, This is the same issue I'm facing currently. I have a wooden 50s radio that I want to convert. Its tough one but if you find a dodgy one at a car boot or something then I'm sure you would be forgiven because at least you would've saved it. Lloyd

15th May 2017, 9:12 pm	#4
PsychMan Octode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Fleet, Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,765	Re: Where to start...? What did you want to do exactly? As Paul says there are numerous options available that dont involve junking a nice old radio. As long as you get a set with a mains transformer for safety, you can run all sorts into the gram input and get decent authentic sound with arguably much less work than trying to make the case fit something else.

15th May 2017, 11:25 pm	#5
computerman Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 6	Re: Where to start...? Thanks for the quick replies! Was expecting abuse at my sacriligeous plans! The plan (as guessed by paulsherwin!) is indeed to use a Raspberry Pi - in this case a v3B with a suitable amp board, such as the JustBoom devices, running PiCorePlayer. I've been a longtime user of the Squeezebox devices, but wanted something that looked a little more aesthetically pleasing. With regard to sacrificing the guts, I was intending to start with a non-working unit anyway. My repair / restoration skills aren't necessarily up to scratch to bring a non-worker back to life, and I wouldn't want to trash a working model. It's purely about the visual impression for me. The stereo requirement isn't essential (I agree on the separation point) - merely a 'nice to have'. Most of my other audio gear is reasonably high-end (not quite audiophile perhaps but aspiring to be!) so I'm trying to achieve the best audio quality I can from mostly 24bit (or at worst 16bit FLAC) in the most easily-achievable container. Something like some of these ideas (I hope this link is ok to post?): https://www.hifiberry.com/build/gallery/ Thanks for the comments so far. I guessed that the '50s woodies' were least desirable to collectors and restorers due to the sheer quantity available on eBay...

16th May 2017, 8:33 am	#6
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: Where to start...? Two Points regarding stereo in small cabinets (1) I have two Ferguson DAB radios which are no more than 9" wide. Both have two, admittedly small, speakers fitted and are stereo, though the separation isn't great. (2) in the 80s & early 90s many portable radio/cassette players were fitted with a 'stereo wide' or 'spatial stereo' control to (attempt to) overcome this limitation. These worked by taking a portion of signal from the RH Channel, feeding it out of phase to the LH Channel and vice-versa, giving the impression that the soundstage was 'wider' than the player. If the OP wants to fit two speakers into a 50s woody, a circuit of this type could be included as well.

16th May 2017, 9:06 am	#7
radioman Heptode Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ayr, Ayrshire, UK. Posts: 631	Re: Where to start...? How about a Bush AC11? https://www.vintage-radio.com/manufa...sets/bush.html Andy

16th May 2017, 10:28 am	#8
computerman Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 6	Re: Where to start...? Ah... that looks ideal! The 31, 34 or 41 might also suit. Thanks!! Presumably these are fairly common, and not too expensive? FWIW obviously I don't need the internal components so they would be free to a good home if anyone needs them (I won't use a sledgehammer!). I'd rather not go down the route of artificial processing of the signAl if possible, although indeed it certainly could be done with the Pi...

16th May 2017, 10:59 am	#10
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,967	Re: Where to start...? As I suggested earlier, there is usually plenty of room inside a 50s woodie to fit anything you want. The heater supply is mostly 6.3V which can be rectified and regulated to give a standard 5VDC. And you get to keep that authentic valve sound! Repairing old radios isn't difficult if you have basic electronics skills - it's usually just a question of changing some leaky old capacitors.

17th May 2017, 9:06 am	#11
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,901	Re: Where to start...? Basic electronic skills, even advanced electronic skills can be acquired. Nobody was born with them. As you do a bit and chat about it a bit, you inevitably pick up the lingo and start to find out what is usual. Learning is unavoidable if you do things. Without timetables, exams, pressure, it's even enjoyable. There's still an incentive, the more knowledge you acquire, the more you can do but this is a positive, gentle, incentive. Most of all, have fun! David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

17th May 2017, 3:21 pm	#12
pichacker Hexode Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Essex, UK. Posts: 370	Re: Where to start...? How about a nice compromise. A woodie has plenty of room to mount what you like in the cabinet. Leave the original guts inside (disconnected) and just have your new stuff totally separate but linked to the original controls if possible? __________________ 6.3v on my heaters is no longer enough to get me going in the morning!!

18th May 2017, 1:19 am	#15
computerman Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 6	Re: Where to start...? Radio Wrangler - I do intend to climb the learning curve, but it's a slow and steady process! Appreciate the encouragement though! Pichacker - Not sure how I'd manage to get any original controls working without more severe butchery than I'd planned. It's possible to add rotary encoders and buttons to a Raspberry Pi but attaching them securely to the originl buttons might require some extreme Dremmel work, patience and lots of glue! It would be in the 'nice-to-have' category though - certainly a power and a volume control. This would be my choice: https://shop.max2play.com/en/rotary-encoder.html Phil G4SPZ - I would indeed be using modern speaker(s) and separate power supply for the Raspberry Pi and it's screen and amp / digi out card. I like the idea of backlighting the dial - genious idea! Jofusradio - I intend to do this; as I'm using a Raspberry Pi 3B (which has bluetooth on board) so I can do it with Max2Play (see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt96_jnxnnU )