Vintage Du Pre Lost Recording

[dave walsh]

Although I'm not primarily a classical music fan, I'm flagging up some aspects of the Jaqueline Du Pre programs shown on BBC4 last night.

The "tribute" documentary was much better than I expected at all levels but the re-editing of existing footage was particularly striking. In addition Reel to Reel enthusists may perhaps be able to ID the EMI BTR looking units [German?] in a Recording Studio clip [at 38 minutes].

Later, a 1968 Royal Albert Hall Dvorjak recording was shown in 4:3. The tape was believed to have been lost in 1985 when it was last shown but it's been "recently" re-discovered. I would have liked to have known more about that but the Beeb seems to a bit tight lipped. There's a history of this sort of thing isn't there

The technical references might interest anyone who missed the broadcast, especially if you're looking for something to play on a vintage b+w set. The real value is in the performances though and the sadness.... the loss of someone so extraordinary in every way no longer able play the Cello at 28! I've got all the previous programs [I think] including the Elgar but this was all new in a sense.

Dave W

[Ted Kendall]

The tape machines are EMI BTR3s, an in-house development of the BTR2 for stereo, often used with single-flange reels. The producer, incidentally, is Suvi Raj Grubb, whose book "Music Makers on Record" is well worth a read, not least for the absence of the bitterness which afflicted other classical producers of the time.

[dave walsh]

Thanks Ted a quick response. I'm not familiar with those decks really, except perhaps the BTR2's often seen in proximity to the Beatles recording at EMI.

Dave

[Craig Sawyers]

Some years ago, I was a member of a woodwind quartet, and we entered in the mature section of the Abingdon Music Festival to play two or three pieces. On my way there, I asked my wife (who was the treasurer of the AMF at that time) who the adjudicator was.

"Oh er, Hilary Finzi"
"WHAT? You mean Jacqueline du Pre's sister, whose husband is the son of the composer Gerald Finzi?"
"Yes - she's very nice"

That did nothing to improve my composure. Especially having watched the movie Hilary and Jackie.

But as it turned out, she was charming, and gave us very nice comments. I took command of the signed review sheet since I was lead clarinet ;-)

But for some reason I missed the programmes last night - iPlayer is going to come to my rescue.

Craig

[dave walsh]

Ah well you know Craig-sisters. I've got the book at as well but is it all relevant to the music? Actually I think so, the fragile yet intense nature of JDP is emphasised in the documentary-half lacking in confidence, half wild gypsy. It's the sort of thing that makes a difference! At least you didn't do a runner, leaving a Trio behind!

Dave

[Craig Sawyers]

The even weirder thing was that I met Christopher Finzi, Hilary Finzi's husband. Knowing the rather strange way he spent his time alternating between Hilary and Jackie (with Hilary's knowledge) when JdP was going downhill, did not prepare me for the rather portly and grey haired Christopher - it was a distinct disconnect.

But a really nice chap to talk to.

[chriswood1900]

Thanks Dave
I have just watched the programme and found it fascinating, whilst I remembered her name I had completely forgotten all what a talent she was.
Chris

[Craig Sawyers]

Absolutely. Her performance of the Elgar conducted by Barbirolli is unmatched. Barbirolli was a cellist in the orchestra for the Elgar Cello concerto premier conducted by Elgar, so the du Pre/Barbirolli recording is the closest link to the composer's intent for the piece.

A later version conducted by her husband Daniel Barenboim is not as good.

But the best recording of the Brahms two sonatas for Cello and Piano with Barenboim (1968) are sublime - they bristle with open lust between the two of them. Quite astonishing performance.

Craig

[dave walsh]

Ok Chris! I thought the 68 concert was great-even the period shots of the audience coming in! There was another program later as well [while you're on I Player perhaps] Celloists at the BBC. A repeat but very appropriate with the others. I'd urge anyone who's not seen the Elgar Concerto to find it. Absolutely astounding and the best ever performance. The men can't touch it! You don't need to be at all interested in classical music to be enthralled.

Dave

[Tom_I]

An interesting documentary, if a little obsequious in places, but it didn't do anything to change my opinion of Jacqueline du Pre. I always found her style too histrionic, and her use of vibrato excessive.

A musical legend, for sure, but not to my taste, I'm afraid. Each to their own, I suppose.

[Nuvistor]

I have the 1965 Barbirolli version on CD, EMI Classics and the 1968 version on a DVD, I am not musically gifted but the job in the next few days is to listen to both and try to tell the difference.

I do like the music by Elgar, I also have a Naxos CD of his violin concerto played by Albert Sammons, conductor Henry Wood in 1929.

[Ted Kendall]

Originally Posted by dave walsh

There's a history of this sort of thing isn't there

Too right there is, and we should all be grateful. Before technology reached the point where everything broadcast could be kept, decisions had to be made about what to keep, and in the nature of the beast some of them were wrong. Many staff did a Nelson, to the general benefit.

[Ted Kendall]

Originally Posted by Tom_I

An interesting documentary, if a little obsequious in places

I think the tone is a perfectly legitimate reaction to the bad press she has had, which has paraded her flaws and misfortunes to excess. Note that Christopher Nupen, one of the producers, actually shot much of the footage, so he should know what he's talking about, don't you think? To celebrate such a force of nature does not diminish the Starkers, Torteliers or Rostropoviches of this world...

[bikerhifinut]

And wasn't a lot of Archive and classic footage and radio preserved by Amateur recordists who managed to preserve some otherwise lost forever Programmes?

A.

[Ted Kendall]

Certainly was - the vintage comedy stuff I've done for the Beeb would be much the poorer without it.

[dave walsh]

Hi Tom. I don't think it was obseqious but that I can see why you might think that. I assumed that the film maker might be "old school" and therefore aqquainted with vintage ideas like appropriateness and good taste. JDP is still a once in centuries talent!

Ted, I readily admit that you are closer to what went on at the time than I will ever be [with an enviable professional background]. We've discussed all this in the past. You're arguement boils down to that the BBC did the best it could in the [financial] circumstances. I still think that they actually wiped things at random using class based values eg destroying a play and concerts by the Nobel Prize winning Bob Dylan. I can live with the mistake but not the denial. They are always uncomfortable with this, usually saying 'it was before my time' as if the past doesn't matter!

The arguements against are-

[a] The Canadian Broadcasting Company kept their play/concert by Dylan.
They had a sense of responsibility towards the Nation.

[b] They had an awareness of culural importance. When BBC refused to support the Alexandria Palace group, the management said "We don't do Museums". This was not long after they closed the Museum [based on the Steve Harris collection] in Broadcasting house down

[c] It's not just Dylan. Like the NHS the Beeb survives despite those in charge. Take a look at W1A BBC2 comedy or documentary-your choice.

Dave

[emeritus]

About 15-20 years ago I heard a BBC radio programme ( I don't recall which one) where an ex-BBC employee mentioned that, when colour TV became established, one of the archivists binned a lot of black and white archive material to make space as she thought no-one was interested in it any more. The impression I got was that it had been done at her own initiative rather than because of a directive from above.

[Ted Kendall]

If you're minded to, you can see class war in anything. It's much more likely to be simple bone-headedness. One VT librarian pulled every tenth reel off the shelf and wiped it. One of them was Lennon on Parkinson...

[cheerfulcharlie]

Originally Posted by dave walsh

Ted, I readily admit that you are closer to what went on at the time than I will ever be [with an enviable professional background]. We've discussed all this in the past. You're argument boils down to that the BBC did the best it could in the [financial] circumstances. I still think that they actually wiped things at random using class based values eg destroying a play and concerts by the Nobel Prize winning Bob Dylan. I can live with the mistake but not the denial. They are always uncomfortable with this, usually saying 'it was before my time' as if the past doesn't matter!

I think you have a point as the BBC kept hours of colour footage of Prince Charles going to Wales to open an envelope from the Queen.
If your talking about 'Madhouse on Castle Street' then this was thought have existed to at least 1968 and had been recorded on film rather than tape so there was no excuse for 'needing to re-use the tape because it was expensive'

[dave walsh]

This is good stuff Emeritus. When Bury became progessive and opened a Music Library in the 80's, the woman they put in charge stocked it exclusively with Classical Music and was really surprised when there was an uproar. I lived with another female librarian [a JDP] who thought her colleague was both bigoted AND crackers. I used to say, at the time, that the overall qualification for being a Librarian appeared to be a disinterest in both books and people. My lovely partner was the opposite of all that.

I'm not a class warrior Ted [tempting as this sometimes is] but your evidence does tie in with my "random" theory. I've been gifted with a lot of stuff because some indiferent Beeb manager just threw it out without a care or consideration. It's not their money after all but as a License payer, I bought it in the first place!
I really don't think our views are all that different

Interesting Charlie. Yes Madhouse and also the 60min concert broadcast on successive Saturdays in two parts [somehow-they managed to keep the Joan Baez 30 minutes film from the same tour-if it was a film?]. I was told told that the 2" Video Tape was SO expensive that they HAD to recycle it and that [possibly] a recording of the Milk Race wiped the Dylan concert. It has certainly been said that the Beeb kept recordings of various murderous and unprincipled Heads of State whilst ignoring what was going on in politics and music generally ["The Times They Are A'Changing"].
I might be biased-I had an interview at BH where a chap looked at me over his gold rimmed glasses and said "You do realise this is a technician post? [because I'd mentioned Tony Palmer]. Puzzled, I said yes-naively I didn't realise he meant this wasn't the Graduate Entry scheme. I still support the BBC or is it now the BBG [Global].

Dave