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Old 11th Jun 2019, 2:39 pm   #61
ViperSan
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Default Micromaster programmer ?

I have found very little reference to this programmer anywhere else and ICE TECHNOLOGY who created it moved on and indeed are no longer contactable regarding this unit.
It is a Micromaster 1000 not plus or E
It is connected using a parallel port I/O
Has a 40 pin ziff socket and came with a PSU brick but nothing else.
So no software or user instructions/manual.
I realise it probably uses a DOS interface and have a working windows 98SE computer I can connect to.
I was overjoyed when I found it simply because I like to get old computers particularly Commodore working again and was hoping I could perhaps use the old MCM68764 Eproms I have to write some pin compatible EPROMS for the VIC 20 rather than have to use adapter boards.
It may well be that these old eproms are not supported even by the MM1000, but I still would like to have it in use again.
I just love old tech.
Any help with manuals, info, software or supported devices would be most appreciated.

Kind regards, VS.

Last edited by ViperSan; 11th Jun 2019 at 2:45 pm. Reason: Post moved to existing thread.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 7:10 pm   #62
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

ViperSan ... your post has been added to the end of an already existing comprehensive discussion about this programmer. If you look back through the thread you will find several attached versions of the software.

Note that the 'not plus' versions like yours were only ever supported by DOS versions of the software, only the 'plus' versions work with the Windows software which you will also find further back in this thread.

You will however find that you can run the DOS software through a DOS command prompt window on versions of Windows as late as 98SE.

If you are into retro computers the software also includes a very useful CHIPTEST utility which can test most 74xx and 4xxx series logic and quite a few common old RAM ICs.

Last edited by SiriusHardware; 11th Jun 2019 at 7:27 pm.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 7:37 pm   #63
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Forgot to mention, if the Speedmaster does not support the Motorola MCM68764, I have a programmer here which does, I did one for someone with a NASCOM a while back - no problem programming some for you if you can also supply the code which has to go into them.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 8:32 pm   #64
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Many thanks Sirius.

Since I only have a couple of those Motorola chips to play with I may one day take you up on that kind offer once I decide what I want on them that is.
TBH I just wanted to see if the MM1000 could handle them, but having got it running with downloads from this thread under DOS window in Win98.
I am pleased to see it work, but very disappointed I can't flash these oddball chips myself.
Totally unsupported in the libraries.
In fact only PICS listed under Motorola.
I can't help but be curious why these chips appear to be unsupported by just about every progger?
I have a cheap TL866 and a GQ-4X4, neither list this chip.
Just out of interest, I also have an EXPRO HEP-104 4 zif programmer which uses a dedicated 8 bit IDE card and this doesn't support these chips either.
So I have to ask what do you have that does?

LOL.

Last edited by Station X; 11th Jun 2019 at 9:44 pm. Reason: Demorsed.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 9:57 pm   #65
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

It's a Hi-Lo Systems All07A programmer. Very high-end in its day, I probably could have bought a fairly reasonable second hand car for what it cost me at the time. (Mid nineties). It was a very extravagant purchase for a hobbyist.

Still using it though, so I have had some reasonable use out of it myself and it continues to prove useful for programming exotic devices for other forum members every now and again.

If you ever decide what you want in those devices just drop me a PM (no charge, but I appreciate return postage and packing if possible).

With regard to the Speedmaster's only supported Motorola devices being PICs, are you sure? PICs are made by Microchip, not by Motorola, as far as I know.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 10:02 pm   #66
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Indeed I probably generalised regarding Motorola devices .
I perhaps should have said microcontrollers.
I also made a mistake in my previous post when I said dedicated 8 bit IDE ..when I actually meant 8 bit ISA
regards
VS
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 10:24 pm   #67
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Well, I don't know if you noticed but the SM1000 device programming software allows you to make 'user defined' devices, to set the programming voltages and so on - unfortunately this is the one aspect of this programmer we don't understand very well because the manual does not cover it at all well.

Here's the datasheet for that IC which appears to tell you everything you need to do, step by step, to program it.

https://www.dataman.com/media/datash...a/MCM68764.pdf

So one possibility is to 'design' a user defined device profile from scratch.

Another possibility is to identify a conventional common eprom with the same memory size, programming voltage and basic 'generic' programming algorithm, and make an adaptor which converts the pinout of the MCM68764 into the pin layout of the 'common' EPROM, drop that into the Speedmaster (or any other programmer you have) and program the device as though it is the common EPROM, using the generic (slow) algorithm for that type of EPROM.

You may be able to resolve any minor differences (programming pulse length, programming voltage) by making the necessary 'custom' changes and saving the changed profile as a 'user' device.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 10:31 pm   #68
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

This is indeed very interesting Sirius.
I have a friend who is much more knowledgeable than me in this regard.
I'll show him the PDF you provided and see if it inspires him.
I am basically just a TV repair technician so my abilities are limited to construction and repair, whereas he is more cerebral.
I'll let you know if it gets his juices going.
lol
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 8:27 pm   #69
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

I might have a go at this myself, I've just been looking through the 'User' device setup and it is possible to specify a 'User' device with the following parameters:

24-pin EPROM
Organisation: 8K*8
Vpp: 25V
Pulse type: CE Pulsed low, VPP pulsed
Pulse Width: 2ms
Max tries: 25

One unknown is whether the combination of '24-pin EPROM' plus '8K X 8' organisation forces the programmer to expect pin 18 to be A11 rather than _E, which it would be on, say, a 24 pin 4K 2732.

Obviously, the actual MCM68764 devices are hard to come by and I would not risk damaging one by mucking about with the settings while trying to program a real device.

Instead, I would

-Fill the 8K of the programmer software's buffer space with 'FF'

-Take an IC socket and connect 4K7 resistors from D0 through D7 to the +5V pin on the socket

-Drop that into the programmer as a 'dummy eprom'

In theory, if you now try to program the 'eprom' the programmer will run right through the whole 8K address range 'programming' FF into each 'location' in the dummy EPROM and then verifying it, whereupon, thanks to the resistors, it will read FF, the value it is expecting to see, back from each location.

The point of doing this would be that you could...

-See what is happening to pin 18 - if it is low for the first half of the programming run, then high for the second half, it is being driven as A11 (Good) but if it is pulsing a lot then it is probably still being driven as _E (Bad).

-See what is happening on pin 20, _E/VPP, to see if the pulse type and timing matches that required by the MCM68764. The way I read it - possibly incorrectly - the device expects 2ms long VPP (25V) pulses, up to a maximum of 25 times, with a read/verify being done in between each attempt.

Obviously you or your knowledgeable friend would need a scope to see what was happening on these two pins during a dummy programming run.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 2:45 pm   #70
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Hi Sirius ..
I have asked my friend ...but pressures at work for him means it might be a while before he can help.
So ..if you make any progress I will obviously be interested.
Thus I shall keep a close eye on this thread.
Just as an aside ..I just made an impulse buy on an EMP10 in the USA.
Which I have seen hinted at regarding more obscure eproms.
If nothing else it will be yet another interesting addition to my programmer collection.
The price was reasonable though postage and import costs made it pricey.
We shall see..
What caught my interest was that the package was complete and included profile modiles and software ...plus a manual of sorts.
Chances are I'll need a 240 psu though ..as the included one will be for US voltages.
Here is a pix of the listed items.
I must curtail these impulse buys before I go bankrupt ..lol
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 2:58 pm   #71
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

The profile modules are essential, so it's a good job you got those. We have a Needhams EMP-20 at work and that DOES do the MCM68764.

So maybe its little brother does as well, let's hope that the correct profile module is included. (We have about nine or ten of those for our EMP20).
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 3:04 pm   #72
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

..good to know Sirius ..
I wonder if the modules for the EMP10 and 20 are interchangeable ?
If so ..then at least I can reference your unit for the correct module and that way search for one if need be.
ya never know,
rgds
VS
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 3:10 pm   #73
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

...A list of devices supported by the EMP-10. Not many by Motorola, but luckily for you...

https://www.docentelectronics.com/ht...ice%20List.htm

The profile module for those is M1 (the 'B' side). It looks as though yours has one of those.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 3:13 pm   #74
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Thanks for the list.
Very much appreciated.
It does say however regarding the motorola eproms ..module M1B
and I cant see one in the photo ..only M1A
..so I might still be out of luck
doh!
My eyes are getting dim these days ..
from what you are saying these modules are dual sided ..so A and B
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 4:05 pm   #75
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Yep

They are reversible, so you put them in whichever way around (A or B) the programmer instructs you to for any given type.

Last edited by SiriusHardware; 13th Jun 2019 at 4:13 pm.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 12:49 pm   #76
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Hi Sirius ..
just letting you know my EMP package has landed in the UK.
pretty speedy really as it visited Kentucky ..Cincinnati and Seatle en route.
Just hope it doesn't take an age getting through the UK postal system.
and that I dont get extra charges.
rgds
VS
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 7:44 pm   #77
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

In your picture, although I could not read the details after the forum downsized the image, I noticed that the PSU helpfully has the output voltage and DC plug polarity and probably the maximum output current all marked on it. You should not have much trouble finding a UK substitute.
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 11:57 am   #78
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

My EMP10 has just arrived ..
everything is in a plastic storage box.
One thing I didn't see in the listing was an eprom eraser.
That was a surprise..thus there are 2 psu bricks included.
both are AC so the emp must have internal DC conversion.
I guess that makes things a lttle more complicated as I now need a 12v 240 volt
1 amp transformer.
Time to start digging in my scrap.
The eraser uses 24v ac input 500ma
Both of them are of course 120v ac input (US)
I guess as a last resort I _could_ run the 2 transformers in series...
but I'll keep this option in reserve.
rgds
VS
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Old 22nd Jun 2019, 1:35 pm   #79
ViperSan
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Just dug out an old US robotics modem transformer from the days of dial-up.
It is AC out at 1 amp..but claims only 9v ..but actually produces 10.9v off load.
It may well be this is adequate..
We shall see.
rgds
VS
I throw nothing away..and I still have the 56K modem.
Maybe it pays to be a hoarder
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 9:10 am   #80
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Default Re: ICE Speedmaster 1000 Eprom programmer

Now you mention it I think our EMP20 may have an AC supply.

The idea of using the two transformers in series, although ingenious, assumes that they both present exactly the same constant load to the mains and therefore each drop exactly half of the supply voltage, but in practice I would not rely on that being the case.

If the transformer output is a little bit on the low side it may affect regulation of the programming voltages in particular, so I would strive to find a transformer with the correct nominal output.

If these units have internal bridge rectifiers it is even possible that you could run them on a DC power supply of either polarity since the bridge will just turn the voltage the right way around internally, but you can only do this if there is no part of the circuit which relies on the input being AC for internal transformation to another voltage, or for timing of internal events, the latter being unlikely in this case.

If you do try to use a DC supply for this it will need to be fully isolated from everything else, ie, no connection between DC 0V and mains earth. That is because the true 0V of the programmer is likely to be earthed via its cable connection to the host computer.
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