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Old 6th Jun 2018, 3:45 pm   #41
barrymagrec
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

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I wonder if bell wire was around in Paul Voigt's day ?
The Voigt domestic corner horn is a speaker I would love to see and hear. Sadly there is so few of them still around, and those that do still exist, most suffer from wood lice.
I`d like to hear them as well - of course they were not intended for Stereo so even rarer as a pair.

I think one or two people have recreated them from the original information but it was an entirely non trivial job.

I believe there was a demo a few years ago at Tonbridge audiojumble, though I wasn`t there.
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 4:56 pm   #42
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

I didn't realise there was so many British HiFi companies around, that still made their products in the UK.

I knew about Naim, and Linn, both out of my league money wise . . . .
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 5:05 pm   #43
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

I think the Voigt Domestic Corner Horn reproductions are about £28000, all hand built, perfect replicas.

It is one of those speakers that i would love to own, but unless Santa brings me one for Xmas, or I inherit a fortune (which is never) it ain't going to happen.
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 5:14 pm   #44
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

My first pair of decent speakers were Celef Monitors (pictured). I'd been reading about cables and decided to inspect the wiring inside their cabinets, from the sockets on the back to the drivers.
I was amazed at what I found, the weediest gauge wire you could imagine.
I replaced it with heavy gauge solid copper conductors and the difference in bass response was clearly audible.
As to the eye wateringly expensive cables sold to connect amp to speakers, they do say there's one born every minute... pure snake oil.
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 5:32 pm   #45
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

This is one of those Threads that may never end. I was also a Bell Wire user, never really liked it as it would not lay well and could fracture. But in the 1950s there was little choice. I've been a contented user of 79 strand ever since it came out.

THINKS: After reading all of this, maybe I should now go spend a bit more and have all my leads "burned in".....LOL
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 7:28 pm   #46
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

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THINKS: After reading all of this, maybe I should now go spend a bit more and have all my leads "burned in".....LOL
Never mind "burned in", this lot are going in the opposite direction - your cables, valves and even CDs need to have Deep Cryogenic Treatment (DCT): -

http://www.russandrews.com/dct-service/

Or just stick them in the freezer overnight ... if you did that though, the snake oil might emulsify! LOL
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 7:28 pm   #47
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I should imagine if you've been using 79 strand since it came out, it'll be well burnt-in by now!

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Old 6th Jun 2018, 7:41 pm   #48
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

When I started my first job for a hifi retailer in 1968 the correct wire was a fabric covered
rubber insulated cable which had a twist It was myself that introduced plastic covered twin flex. On reflection I feel that this was a backward step the advantage of the twist was it would reject emc or radio interference, being rubber covered it was very flexible even though it must have been the equivalent of 1.5 mm sg
The inner cores were of course red and the return conductor being black all in all a quality product
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 8:11 pm   #49
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

I am skeptical of burn in methods to be honest.. Until someone can explain the science behind it then a skeptic I remain.

QED 79 strand or variant of seems popular with forum members. I chose well . . . .

Does anyone know where I can purchase Deltron Banana Plugs from ?
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 8:18 pm   #50
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

Farnell.

http://uk.farnell.com/w/c/test-measu...ng=cable-mount
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 8:21 pm   #51
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The stuff I considered to be bell wire that I was using for extension speakers in the 1960's was sold by Woolworths. Unlike the figure-of-eight parallel conductor bell wire usually sold today, it was a twisted pair with stranded conductors and black plastic insulation that was so thin that I don't think it was intended for mains use, but I could be wrong. Woolworth's twisted flex for mains use had much thicker, transparent, insulation.

I believe that in the days when valves were expensive, the loudspeakers were much better at converting electricity into sound and so would not have needed heavy conductors. The output stage of Dad's mid-1950's RGD radiogram has a single vlalve operating in class A rated at 3W, and we never needed to turn the volume control to anything like maximum for the sound to be deafening. Certainly the extension speakers that dad made from the regular supply of pre-war speakers we used to get from our neighbour (who used to break up old radios and TVs for the scrap metal) were pretty efficient, and produced plenty of volume when fed directly from the earphone sockets of our transistor radios. In the 1970's I used to provide the music for my club using one of his speakers fed from a Ford (Plessey) car radio that I had modified to provide a line input from my cassette recorder. It provided more than enough volume to fill a small hall, and I think was rated at no more than 3W. I seem to recall reading that the sound system of the old Odeon Leicester Square in London was powered by a 15W amplifier.
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 8:26 pm   #52
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Thanks for the Deltron link . . . .
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 8:26 pm   #53
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

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I am skeptical of burn in methods to be honest.. Until someone can explain the science behind it then a skeptic I remain.
The only scientific explanation is psychological: you have time to get to like the sound of your speakers. And if you have a sincere faith in the value of cable burn-in, then I can assure you that cable and speakers will sound better after burn-in.

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Old 6th Jun 2018, 8:53 pm   #54
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I believe that in the days when valves were expensive, the loudspeakers were much better at converting electricity into sound and so would not have needed heavy conductors. The output stage of Dad's mid-1950's RGD radiogram has a single vlalve operating in class A rated at 3W, and we never needed to turn the volume control to anything like maximum for the sound to be deafening. Certainly the extension speakers that dad made from the regular supply of pre-war speakers we used to get from our neighbour (who used to break up old radios and TVs for the scrap metal) were pretty efficient, and produced plenty of volume when fed directly from the earphone sockets of our transistor radios. In the 1970's I used to provide the music for my club using one of his speakers fed from a Ford (Plessey) car radio that I had modified to provide a line input from my cassette recorder. It provided more than enough volume to fill a small hall, and I think was rated at no more than 3W. I seem to recall reading that the sound system of the old Odeon Leicester Square in London was powered by a 15W amplifier.
Lightweight cones and powerful (often DC energised) magnets raised efficiency way above that of today's hi fi speakers with their heavy cones.

In environments such as cinemas, the early Western Electric horn enclosures increased efficiency from a typical open baffle 5% to as much as 50%, increasing equivalent sound level from a 15W amplifier to that from a 150W job.

I have a pre-war cinema amplifier with a pair of push-pull PENA4s which can't be rated at more than 12W, but probably fed a highly efficient horn-loaded speaker system.

AFAIK, post-war cinema systems typically used 15-30W per channel. Only recently have today's cheap transistor watts encouraged higher powers.

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Old 6th Jun 2018, 9:03 pm   #55
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

This is a good thread, many contributions, and I am learning that bell wire was the go to wire for your HiFi of yesteryear. I am still really tempted to try it, but as I am using a modern solid-state amplifier with around 50 watts of power, I am still skeptical if bell wire will be suitable . . . .
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 9:24 pm   #56
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

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Never mind "burned in", this lot are going in the opposite direction - your cables, valves and even CDs need to have Deep Cryogenic Treatment (DCT) LOL
Maybe they should keep all their equipment at room temperature and just get the magazines deep cryo treated? Ought to make the adjectives so much more adjectival and the verbs more esoteric that it'll force them to read them all over again.

Mentioning Russ Andrews is cheating. Any rational person with an understanding of scientific principles just melts to the floor on the mention of the name.

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Old 6th Jun 2018, 9:31 pm   #57
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

Oh, I used to use twin cable with a PVC outer jacket intended for car wiring. A good bit meatier than Wooliws bell wire and maybe a little bit less loss. The next time I needed any, the QED 79 strand stuff had come along and was cheap enough. I couldn't care less how any strands it had. The cross-sectional area was plenty and it flexed well enough.

The hifi world haven't really got their heads round skin effect, so I don't think they're ready fore to tell them about radiation fro sharp bends or kinks in cables.

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Old 6th Jun 2018, 9:44 pm   #58
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

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This is a good thread, many contributions, and I am learning that bell wire was the go to wire for your HiFi of yesteryear. I am still really tempted to try it, but as I am using a modern solid-state amplifier with around 50 watts of power, I am still skeptical if bell wire will be suitable . . . .
Bell wire tends to be solid core today, which makes it easier for clipping to the skirting boards, but less good for speaker use. The stuff CPC sell is only 0.2mm-squared, which I would expect to measure around 0.1 ohms per metre. That could easily amount to 1 ohm per run, which is too much really...

Flexible "figure of 8" is what we're probably thinking of here. I guess you're after that for aesthetic reasons? I can certainly understand that for a vintage setup, where 79 strand might look too "chunky".

This caught my eye: https://www.screwfix.com/p/philex-sp...0m-white/90735

The specs are a bit vague, but at that price you could risk it - it could have plenty of other uses if it's too thin for your speakers. Your local store will probably let you have a look at it before buying if you ask nicely. For short runs into moderately easy loads, it might well be good enough - it's easy to compare it to 79-strand to see if you can hear a difference.

50 watts equates to an RMS voltage of 20V and an RMS current of 2.5A. With real music (not a sine wave), these levels will rarely, if ever be seen. So I wouldn't worry too much on power grounds - I've seen 400W amplifiers drive PA speakers via 100 metres of 0.75mm-squared mains flex before! The total series resistance - which depends on the cross-sectional area and cable length - might make a slight difference to the overall response, but it might not necessarily be unpleasant - it just depends on your speakers. So, there's no danger as such - just see what happens
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 11:02 pm   #59
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Default Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear

Just curious. If bell wire was used for the speakers. What was used as phono cables ?

Thank You . . . .
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Old 6th Jun 2018, 11:18 pm   #60
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I am still sceptical if bell wire will be suitable . . . .
Easily checked.
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