Cleaning Green Bakelite

[dave walsh]

Yes I'd thought about the excellent GW wooden repros but I've never seen one of those close up! On balance, Luke's set does appear very authentic...! Then there's the issue of the stand? Not heard of anyone copying those lately. Last Autumn's BVWS bulletin [Vol 34 No3] has brilliant front and rear cover photos by Carl Glover, of the Ekco AC86 and AD65 on their respective stands [both Black though]. I was interested in this originally because Chemayeff [who apparently designed the 86 cabinet but not the 85 "Dougal"] was also one of the two Modernist Architects who designed the Pavilion built here at Bexhill in 1935. Dave W

[Phil G4SPZ]

Its good condition suggests that it has remained in careful storage for many years. Probably wise not to power it up until more is known about it - its value could indeed be more dependent on total originality rather than whether it works or not. You would hate to take thousands of pounds off its value by fitting a few new yellow polypropylene capacitors, wouldn't you?

Leave well alone for the moment, Luke, but lock the radio away in a safe, or in the bank... and if you could get as much info as possible, including photos and its serial number before you do lock it away, that may help the Forum Research Department in determining whether this is indeed the Holy Grail radio that it appears to be.

Luke faces an interesting but enviable conundrum about just what to do with this set. And there was me, worrying about whether to restore my Philips 635A which may be worth £250!

[maxwell]

Amazing!
Luke, I am sure you realised you had something special here? Didn't you? I fully endorse the advice given by Phil G4SPZ above.
Well done!

[murphymad]

Not wishing to put a damper on things, and It would be very nice to find this was an original, but we must take into account that a number of excellent reproduction AD65 cabinets were made about 10 to 15 years ago by a very able midlands collector, who also produced the reproduction chrome bars and celuloid scale replacements and sold them widely within vintage radio circles.

I have seen a number of his cabinets in different colours and they were made from a resin that was poured into the moulds that he made. Very similar to Catalin in formation and the same method of mixing to get the marble effect.
In fact a real AD65 cabinet was broken by accident, making the moulds.

You should not be suprised either by an original Ekco AD65 chassis being found inside, as he used these from damaged or tatty sets bought over a number of years and they were used for the reproductions.

I would have liked to have purchased one at the time they were being made, but a mortgage payment on the house was more important then.

I can think of two people who had green ones, one of which I inspected and it was really excellent.

I am sure he told me that the cabinets were marked so there could be no mistake in the future about it being an original, but I do not know where, although I can probably find out.

The radio in your picture certainly shows no obvious sign of being 75 plus years old.

I was lucky enough to inspect a REAL green AD65 at the 2001 NVCF at the NEC where we had a large radio and TV display (see BVWS Bulletin vol 26, number 2, page 21).
It showed many different signs of being its age and had several stress cracks in the cabinet in the usual places where the internal strengthening bars are etc.
It certainly did not change hands at anything like the reported £17,500 of the Academy auctions AD65. Don't trust everything you read in the papers...

I look forward to seeing some very close up pictures of this set and hope that it turns out to be a real one.


Mike...

[murphymad]

I should of added that there were also reproduction stands being made for the circular Ekco's from the same source.

The AD65's made at the Museum by Gerry Wells were "Wells coated" (no I did not think that one up) and are instantly recognisable as copies with wooden cabinets and a painted finish.

Mike...

[chipp1968]

I didnt know about the repro cabinets Mike .Thats interesting .I would suspect that this is one .It does look too good. Look forward to some pictures .Nice thing anyway as its properly made.
You would not be fooled by a GW ekco ..

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by murphymad

It certainly did not change hands at anything like the reported £17,500 of the Academy auctions AD65. Don't trust everything you read in the papers...

I was at that auction so can definitely confirm the hammer went down at 15k or just over and buyer's premium + vat would have brought the total to over 17k

Alvin

[Boom]

Did Gerry Wells put chrome bars on his sets? I tried to Google a picture but couldn't find one.

Dave

[dave walsh]

What an intriguing thread this has turned out to be [almost regardless of monetary values]. I had no idea that colour repros had been produced AND the stands to go with them! Thanks for this detailed info Mike. Re the wooden G Wells sets, I'd wondered if those had been marked as a copy although I assumed that the material used would have differentiated them from Bakelite or Resin anyway. The GW sets will no doubt be increasingly collectable themselves over time. I dont recall the Resin colour copy sets being publicised in the same way as the ones made at the Museum [or at all]. It would be interesting to hear how those sets [and stands] are marked to differentiate them from the real thing? As for the famous Green set, sold for a lesser or smaller amount-well Alvin keeps an eye on Auctions so I wonder is it five figures or not?. More importantly, was it verified by someone with Mike's experience as the genuine article before sale? However this all pans out I think Luke should hold back on the cleaning the "Green Bakelite" for now-whatever he's got hold of. Dave W

[chipp1968]

I dont think the GW chassis are identical to the originals either ,so it should be easy to tell .
Use scotchbright,"scratches without cleaning"

[murphymad]

The chassis in the Gerry Wells sets are of the same pattern as the original, but are obvious reproductions as valveholders, valves, tagstrips etc etc etc are very different from the originals.

Gerry sourced chrome bars, knob brights, dials etc. from the same source as above.

The resin cabinets I saw were certainly a very nice job.

Alvin,

I won't go into the details here on the green one at Academy all of those years ago. It certainly was a real green AD65, and the hammer did go down for £15,000.
But it was not the same one as in the BVWS 2001 display.
There certainly is more than one out there, and there may still be more yet to be found (I hope), but why not Bonhams or Christies for such a known rare item? As Phil says " A legendary radio"

Mike...

[Gridiron]

I am actually responding to this from the computer of the collector that Mike mentions as responsible for the reproductions as I was visiting him today and he asked by sheer coincidence to have a look at the forum, as he is not a member. He confirms that the set looks exactly like his reproductions made approx 15 years ago, his reproductions had knobs with chromed inserts which he says the originals did not have. The cabinets were made of a resin which doesn't burn when heated. He only sold one in this country in green as a complete set with a reproduction chassis, the others went abroad.

[kolstar]

Hi all.

I am absolutely convinced that this is indeed one of the replica AD65s that were made about 15 years ago by an enthusiastic collector who lives local to me. I should know because I helped to create the mould and assisted in mixing and pouring the resin.

The two-part mould was made of “Mastermould” liquid silicone rubber using an original AD65 cabinet as a pattern. Both the outer and inner sections of the rubber mould had to be supported by a complicated wooden framework in order to achieve adequate rigidity and to facilitate accurate alignment of the two parts.

The cabinets were cast in polyester resin with glass powder added to reduce shrinkage. Batches of the resin were mixed in different shades of the desired colour (green in this case) and roughly mixed in another container to achieve the mottled effect. The photograph on the front cover of “Radio Art” by Robert Haws was used as a guide to get the colour and mottle as close as possible to the original. The tubs of resin were degassed by means of a vacuum pump and bell jar. This wasn’t entirely successful and we had to resort to a certain amount of post-production patchwork on the insides of the cabinets. The threaded brass bushes were cemented in place with more of the resin after the cabinet was removed from the mould.

The collector who made these replicas did not set out to deceive or defraud anyone. Such was his desire to own one of these rare sets that he spent many hundreds of pounds on the materials needed to make the cabinets. He sold a small number of them in order to recover his outlay and make a sensible profit. The people who bought them were perfectly well aware that they were replicas.

As a footnote, I will tell you that the person who made these replicas eventually got his hands on a real onyx green AD65.

Regards
Alan

[Boom]

That sounds about right Alan. The knobs don't look right. The chassis would be the giveaway. A 15 year old chassis would look nothing like an original. I doubt it would have the 'correct' valves either.

It's still extremely clever w*rk though.

Dave

[Phil G4SPZ]

This certainly has been a fascinating thread, and I for one have learned a lot. The question is, now, how does the owner value his set, which even if it is a 15-year old replica is one of only a handful of such sets in existence? It will be valuable in its own right, even as a replica, although probably not so valuable as a genuine green Ekco original from the 1930s.

People make modern accurate replicas of classic cars, aircraft, furniture, paintings and so on, so why not radios? I suppose that the iconic design of the classic round Ekco will always mean that collectors will want them, real or replica, and be prepared to pay high prices. And at the end of the day, a radio's value is as much as someone is prepared to pay for it, after all. A green resin replica could be worth up to as much as a good brown or black Bakelite model.

I guess we're all waiting to see pictures of the innards, Luke!

[n_highfield]

Definitely an interesting thread even if the OP might perhaps have intended it as a gentle wind-up.

Are there many replicas about? In the engine world there are a few - I have a Robinson hot air engine for instance - these were seldom intended to deceive by the original builder, as one of the above posts says they were generally born of the desire to own an otherwise unobtainable item, but once they are 'out there' subsequent sellers might not be so scrupulous.

[Boom]

The dial doesn't look right on this one:-

http://tiny.cc/3cq9w

Dave

[timbimota2]

Maybe its just me but it does look like the Gerry Wells replica which went for around £270 on eBay earlier on this year

[timbimota2]

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...highlight=ad65 and here they are being made