CRT sets still in daily use? - Page 4 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

AnalogueMatty · 30th Jun 2018, 2:21 pm

Following the recent death of my Ferguson TX9 I've had to capitulate and install an LCD screen ( I baulk at calling it a tv set ! ) that was given to my other half ostensibly for running a Nintendo Switch through. I hate it - it's lain waste to my living room ! Hideous thing.... my HMV ( BRC 1500 ) set next to it is getting a lot more use now, and still performing brilliantly !

FERNSEH · 30th Jun 2018, 3:43 pm

Hi AnalogueMatty, what killed off your TX9? Post 1980 production models were superb sets. Earlier thyristor power supply not quite so good but OK.

DFWB.

AnalogueMatty · 30th Jun 2018, 3:54 pm

It was the green cathode shorting in the tube. I've still got the tv if someone has a replacement 20" tube !

D Cassidy · 30th Jun 2018, 4:08 pm

Hello.
I don't accept that LCD or LED sets have poor colour rendering. What I've been told over the years was that red Phosphors in CRT's were actually very difficult to make and it took a long time to get near to what was needed for colour tubes.
There are many articles on the internet about red phosphors and how they degrade over time.
Personally I think we have got used to the CRT picture and if the Flat screen looks different we criticise it as being wrong when in fact we are just used to previous technology that was in fact not accurate.
I have to say I have seen many pictures on flat screens that are badly adjusted and some are plain awful, if the dealer cannot adjust the set properly for the customer then if they don't have a clue then they will suffer a poor picture and believe the CRT replacement set is no good.
I'm very lucky to say I have a friend that is very pernickety, he does a brilliant job of getting the very best out of any set he installs although he no longer is in the television trade he still does me a favour now and again.

dseymo1 · 30th Jun 2018, 4:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMB

I have yet to see a flat-screen set anywhere that has natural-looking colour, or is it that they are never adjusted properly? Or has a whole generation been brought up on rubbish colour and now likes that look?

I think there's a lot of truth in that!
The majority of displays are set-up with excessive saturation, which is immediately evident to anyone critically comparing them with a natural scene. Remember when colour TV was introduced, and many people set the saturation level near maximum? Things haven't changed much, and to many 'vivid' is still preferable to 'accurate'!
Much the same as the 'boom and tizz' audio which often passes as hi-fi.

Top Cap · 30th Jun 2018, 5:10 pm

Sadly it looks like the time has come to dump the Sony Trinitron, it takes ages to come on and when it does the power LED flashes 5 times. If I switch off and straight back on, the LED remains extinguished but the picture looks rough. Like the CRT has lost a lot of emission similar to a 15 year old dual standard GEC colour set

. I still use a Ferguson Courier in the bedroom supplied with UHF signals from a free view box. I guess one of the flat screens will adorn the room soon.

cmjones01 · 30th Jun 2018, 8:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Cap

Sadly it looks like the time has come to dump the Sony Trinitron, it takes ages to come on and when it does the power LED flashes 5 times.

I played with a late 4:3 Trinitron set which did this. I looked it up and I think the 5 flashes means that the auto-greyscale-correction hasn't been able to do its job. It basically means the CRT has had it. I was able to tweak this one up a bit using the service adjustments but it was clearly at the end of its life and it went for recycling.

Chris

Maarten · 30th Jun 2018, 10:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station X

I've said that I'll scrap these sets when they go wrong, but I expect I'll try to repair them.

Especially the slimfit will be collectible since few were sold and fewer are left.

Maarten · 30th Jun 2018, 10:58 pm

My main set is still a CRT one, Grundig Monolith M70-590/9 from around 1991. Only needed a new tripler when I got it.

Studio263 · 30th Jun 2018, 11:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maarten

My main set is still a CRT one, Grundig Monolith M70-590/9 from around 1991. Only needed a new tripler when I got it.

Strange, I'd have thought you'd have had something like a Philips K4...

Maarten · 1st Jul 2018, 2:10 am

I know two Dutch collectors personally who have K4's, but I can't afford one myself. The picture quality is actually quite good but picture tubes are rare so one wouldn't want to put much wear on it anyway. For some reason, even while I'm really a Philips collector my main sets for watching have been from Grundig for at least 20 years now (they are fitted with Philips picture tubes, though). First a Monolith B8898 which needed a new bridge rectifier and soldering a few cold joints and now needs a new speaker relay, later the above mentioned Monolith. They are the Grundig equivalent to Philips Matchline sets but less plastic and better sound quality. The newer set is a multi system set which comes in handy from time to time. It can even receive MAC transmissions, so it would come in handy if I ever get my hands on such a modulator. I don't know of a so equipped Philips set. They are also really reliable as 1980's and 1990's sets are. I wouldn't want a valve set for regular use. If I don't go "flat" my next set will also be a Grundig Monolith, a late 1990's 82cm wide screen model.

P.S. I just realised... You didn't incidentally mean K40 instead of K4? Those are indeed nice and reliable (once fixed) sets. I maintained one for a customer until late 2017. If I wouldn't have stumbled upon that Grundig B8898, I might have chosen a Matchline K40 set and maybe a Matchline FLx.x set after that.

Heatercathodeshort · 1st Jul 2018, 10:29 am

Well, here you go. This is my contribution of the CRT receivers used as everyday entertainment.

Ekco TC196. 1953. [Winter 'snug' room.

Ferranti 17T4 1954. Living room.

National TR449G I guess around 1970/1. Kitchen.

OK I went dotty decades ago. John.

FERNSEH · 1st Jul 2018, 10:32 am

In post No52 I mentioned there was only one CRT set in the village. Well, I've found another one. Last night I asked a mate in the Cricket Club if he still uses full time his 24" Tatung B series CRT TV and indeed he does.

DFWB.

evingar · 1st Jul 2018, 12:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by D Cassidy

Hello.
I don't accept that LCD or LED sets have poor colour rendering. What I've been told over the years was that red Phosphors in CRT's were actually very difficult to make and it took a long time to get near to what was needed for colour tubes.
There are many articles on the internet about red phosphors and how they degrade over time.
Personally I think we have got used to the CRT picture and if the Flat screen looks different we criticise it as being wrong when in fact we are just used to previous technology that was in fact not accurate.
I have to say I have seen many pictures on flat screens that are badly adjusted and some are plain awful, if the dealer cannot adjust the set properly for the customer then if they don't have a clue then they will suffer a poor picture and believe the CRT replacement set is no good.
I'm very lucky to say I have a friend that is very pernickety, he does a brilliant job of getting the very best out of any set he installs although he no longer is in the television trade he still does me a favour now and again.

As much as I would like to bathe in a "retro glow", I have to agree.

Without a shadow of a doubt my plasma knocks the socks of any CRT I have seem and the new O-LED 4K knocks the socks off the plasma. The detail and deep blacks are astounding (but at my age you need to have your best specs on to appreciate it).

What I would say though, is you need to spend some time setting these newer tellys up. They invariably come by default in "display" mode - i.e everything would up full so they pack a punch in a high luminance retail situation. If you see sets in this mode in your average lounge, I can well imagine that you would not be impressed.

Studio263 · 1st Jul 2018, 12:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maarten

P.S. I just realised... You didn't incidentally mean K40 instead of K4? Those are indeed nice and reliable (once fixed) sets. I maintained one for a customer until late 2017.

No, I meant the real K4! I was chatting about these to someone else who couldn't understand my interest in them - only after some time did I realise that he thought I was talking about the KT4, which isn't nearly so exciting.

Didn't they a KT1 for the Dutch market? 18" with a delta gun tube perhaps, it looked really nice from what I saw. We had a few of the KT2s here but they are a rare set in the UK. KT3s though - everywhere!

dseymo1 · 1st Jul 2018, 1:47 pm

Good point Chris - perhaps most new owners leave their sets in display mode, hence the excessive saturation etc.

stevehertz · 1st Jul 2018, 3:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort

Well, here you go. This is my contribution of the CRT receivers used as everyday entertainment.

Ekco TC196. 1953. [Winter 'snug' room.

Ferranti 17T4 1954. Living room.

National TR449G I guess around 1970/1. Kitchen.

OK I went dotty decades ago. John.

Lovely. Are they your main teles in those rooms? Do you have a flat screen TV at all?

Station X · 1st Jul 2018, 3:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dseymo1

Good point Chris - perhaps most new owners leave their sets in display mode, hence the excessive saturation etc.

I think they probably do. They also have them permanently set in wide screen mode resulting in "stretchy vision" on 4:3 pictures. They've paid for a wide screen set after all and expect the entire screen to be filled.

raditechman · 1st Jul 2018, 3:54 pm

Leaving them in display mode the LED's back-lights have shorter life.
Good for the retail business I suppose.

John

Paul Stenning · 1st Jul 2018, 4:04 pm

The ten pin bowling place in Weymouth still had CRT TVs above some of the lanes (for the scoring) earlier this year, many of them with soft and/or off-colour pictures. Others had flat-screen sets of different types and makes, presumably whatever they could get cheaply as and when the CRT ones failed. Most players were on lanes with flat-screens.

30th Jun 2018, 2:21 pm	#61
AnalogueMatty Triode Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Manchester, UK. Posts: 17	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? Following the recent death of my Ferguson TX9 I've had to capitulate and install an LCD screen ( I baulk at calling it a tv set ! ) that was given to my other half ostensibly for running a Nintendo Switch through. I hate it - it's lain waste to my living room ! Hideous thing.... my HMV ( BRC 1500 ) set next to it is getting a lot more use now, and still performing brilliantly !

30th Jun 2018, 3:43 pm	#62
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? Hi AnalogueMatty, what killed off your TX9? Post 1980 production models were superb sets. Earlier thyristor power supply not quite so good but OK. DFWB.

30th Jun 2018, 3:54 pm	#63
AnalogueMatty Triode Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Manchester, UK. Posts: 17	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? It was the green cathode shorting in the tube. I've still got the tv if someone has a replacement 20" tube !

30th Jun 2018, 4:08 pm	#64
D Cassidy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Fenwick, Glasgow, UK. Posts: 127	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? Hello. I don't accept that LCD or LED sets have poor colour rendering. What I've been told over the years was that red Phosphors in CRT's were actually very difficult to make and it took a long time to get near to what was needed for colour tubes. There are many articles on the internet about red phosphors and how they degrade over time. Personally I think we have got used to the CRT picture and if the Flat screen looks different we criticise it as being wrong when in fact we are just used to previous technology that was in fact not accurate. I have to say I have seen many pictures on flat screens that are badly adjusted and some are plain awful, if the dealer cannot adjust the set properly for the customer then if they don't have a clue then they will suffer a poor picture and believe the CRT replacement set is no good. I'm very lucky to say I have a friend that is very pernickety, he does a brilliant job of getting the very best out of any set he installs although he no longer is in the television trade he still does me a favour now and again.

30th Jun 2018, 5:10 pm	#66
Top Cap Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Watford, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 1,270	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? Sadly it looks like the time has come to dump the Sony Trinitron, it takes ages to come on and when it does the power LED flashes 5 times. If I switch off and straight back on, the LED remains extinguished but the picture looks rough. Like the CRT has lost a lot of emission similar to a 15 year old dual standard GEC colour set . I still use a Ferguson Courier in the bedroom supplied with UHF signals from a free view box. I guess one of the flat screens will adorn the room soon. __________________ Whether the Top Cap is Grid or Anode - touching it will give you a buzz either way!

30th Jun 2018, 10:58 pm	#69
Maarten Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Haarlem, Netherlands Posts: 4,199	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? My main set is still a CRT one, Grundig Monolith M70-590/9 from around 1991. Only needed a new tripler when I got it.

1st Jul 2018, 2:10 am	#71
Maarten Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Haarlem, Netherlands Posts: 4,199	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? I know two Dutch collectors personally who have K4's, but I can't afford one myself. The picture quality is actually quite good but picture tubes are rare so one wouldn't want to put much wear on it anyway. For some reason, even while I'm really a Philips collector my main sets for watching have been from Grundig for at least 20 years now (they are fitted with Philips picture tubes, though). First a Monolith B8898 which needed a new bridge rectifier and soldering a few cold joints and now needs a new speaker relay, later the above mentioned Monolith. They are the Grundig equivalent to Philips Matchline sets but less plastic and better sound quality. The newer set is a multi system set which comes in handy from time to time. It can even receive MAC transmissions, so it would come in handy if I ever get my hands on such a modulator. I don't know of a so equipped Philips set. They are also really reliable as 1980's and 1990's sets are. I wouldn't want a valve set for regular use. If I don't go "flat" my next set will also be a Grundig Monolith, a late 1990's 82cm wide screen model. P.S. I just realised... You didn't incidentally mean K40 instead of K4? Those are indeed nice and reliable (once fixed) sets. I maintained one for a customer until late 2017. If I wouldn't have stumbled upon that Grundig B8898, I might have chosen a Matchline K40 set and maybe a Matchline FLx.x set after that. Last edited by Maarten; 1st Jul 2018 at 2:20 am.

1st Jul 2018, 10:29 am	#72
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? Well, here you go. This is my contribution of the CRT receivers used as everyday entertainment. Ekco TC196. 1953. [Winter 'snug' room. Ferranti 17T4 1954. Living room. National TR449G I guess around 1970/1. Kitchen. OK I went dotty decades ago. John. Attached Thumbnails

1st Jul 2018, 10:32 am	#73
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? In post No52 I mentioned there was only one CRT set in the village. Well, I've found another one. Last night I asked a mate in the Cricket Club if he still uses full time his 24" Tatung B series CRT TV and indeed he does. DFWB.

1st Jul 2018, 1:47 pm	#76
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? Good point Chris - perhaps most new owners leave their sets in display mode, hence the excessive saturation etc.

1st Jul 2018, 3:54 pm	#79
raditechman Heptode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: West London, UK. Posts: 867	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? Leaving them in display mode the LED's back-lights have shorter life. Good for the retail business I suppose. John

1st Jul 2018, 4:04 pm	#80
Paul Stenning Administrator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cardiff Posts: 9,071	Re: CRT sets still in daily use? The ten pin bowling place in Weymouth still had CRT TVs above some of the lanes (for the scoring) earlier this year, many of them with soft and/or off-colour pictures. Others had flat-screen sets of different types and makes, presumably whatever they could get cheaply as and when the CRT ones failed. Most players were on lanes with flat-screens. __________________ Paul Stenning Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster