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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 17th Jun 2016, 10:50 pm   #41
HandH52
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Default Re: Starting My Journey

Hi,
You need to think about the room the speakers will be in and how it is furnished and where you will place the boxes. I would advise listening to a few different makes in a shop first to give you an idea. They would still sound different at home though. Some speakers seem more suited to classical music , others Jazz, rock etc. If you are lucky enough to have room, have different types/makes to suit the music you are playing at the time. Many people do. Personally I've always liked KEF speakers as I find their sound more analytical than say Missions ( I have both makes ) and though new KEF stuff is expensive you can often find older models for sale on Ebay quite cheap if you are prepared to travel to pick them up.
Also as has been said before Freecycle can often be the source of the odd gem but there is an awful lot of junk out there too, you also have to be quick off the mark to get any of the good stuff. I picked up some Eltax Liberty's off there and they are OK but I find them a bit woolly at the top end. There are endless choices for speakers so really there is only one person who can tell what is best for you , yourself!

With regards turntables I agree with the other posts get yourself a Japanese direct drive but avoid the ones with all the bells an whistles as when they fail they can be very hard/expensive to fix. If you can live with a manual or semi auto player I'd go for that, less to go wrong. Cartridges are another mine field, as much choice as speakers and a huge spread in costs. My advice would be to start with an Audio Technica AT95E or a Shure M75EJ magnetic cartridge until you get your ' ears' in then you can change if you want to. You wont loose serious money on them in a resale.
Dont forget Akai were also marketed as Tensai and a Tensai direct drive turntable will sell for peanuts compared to the equivalent Akai one. Don't fret about buying a Technics 1200, they are good but way over priced due to being the deck of choice by DJ's

cheers

John
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Old 18th Jun 2016, 7:49 am   #42
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One other way, which I don't think has ben mentioned yet, is to make your own speakers.

Kits can be bought, or drive units can be bought individually. crossovers can be bought ot components for them.

The usual place to look at is Wilmslow Audio's website.

If you can handle MDF and some veneering to finish them off, you can make some excellent designs, or finished cabinets are sold for kit assembly.

Finally, you could buy someone else's project. Maybe to finish it, maybe for the drivers to use in a different design, maybe to use as they are.

Someone on here found and bought a pair of the old Chris Rogers 'PRO9TL' design speakers, very cheaply if I remember... and they are VERY good.

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Old 18th Jun 2016, 9:26 am   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Kendall View Post
I could make your hair stand on end with some of the Jap kit I've had to fix...at least you can see what you're doing inside a Revox or a Quad. And whoever makes the kit, electrolytics have a finite life. I met Peter Walker several times and can tell you he was no chancer. In fact compared to some other figures in the audio world, even at the time, he was a pillar of integrity.

If you take the whole of what he said about the audibility of differences between amplifiers, it is incontestable. It was that, if an audible difference between two amplifiers is perceived, once variables such as loudness and passband are addressed and if the amplifiers are operated within their rated power, then that difference can be explained by measurements of the systems involved. Granted, finding the relevant measurements may be a challenge, but that doesn't alter the truth of the statement.
Off topic, but well said and still relating to build quality!
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 12:56 pm   #44
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Hi everyone,

I've been looking at a lot of turntables. I think i will buy one soon. I've got a few in mind. I'd be grateful to know if I am best to avoid any of the following TTs or if any of them stand out as a better performaer than the restt.

It may be that they are all around the same ball park, which is fine. I just want to benefit from your experience:

Technics SL-1500
Dual CR503-2
Dual CR505-2
Sony PS-LX4
Trio KD1500

I'm not trying to trouble you for detailed responses, just if there's a real loser or winner in the list.

Thanks for your help.

John
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 1:27 pm   #45
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An interesting listing. I wold go for the DUAL CR505-2, but everbody will have their preferences. Edward
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 1:38 pm   #46
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I don't think there are any real stinkers there. The cartridge you choose will have a significant effect.

The Duals can develop problems with their autostart/stop mechanisms, but can be repaired of course.
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 6:52 pm   #47
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Yes check the cartridge/stylus as that could add a substantial proportion to the price of the deal if either need replacement. I have to say I would be immediately suspicious of any used stylus and replace it as a matter of course if using it to play my own LPs.

Now then, Devils advocate time.
I would agree with previous posters, all of those turntables you mentioned, if working as designed will give you a very good performance.
What I will say is this:
Be mindful of how much you pay for your vintage turntable as if you get into the £100+ area I feel you'd be better served looking at the budget new Hi fi turntables. Stuff Like pro-jects and their ilk can often be found brand new complete with an Excellent Ortofon Cartridge for not a lot more. Even a cheapo Magnetic cartridge is going to cost you £25 or more so bear that in mind. Factor in a manufacturers warranty for a new piece of kit that really does work well and sometimes the older stuff can look less of a bargain. especially as a used pro-ject from a dealer will have to be cheaper than a new one and thus worth looking out for for less than £100. Rega also and these are very upgradeable and repairable with a good factory aftersales.
I concur with Paul et al about seeking out a quality older one from one of the less hyped up makers.
Looking at the prices of PL12D's for instance, Frankly I'd buy a new pro-ject cos they are better. I have had decent experience of both.
Another pleasant surprise I had was a pair of fairly down market direct drive disco decks recently. I got them at an audio jumble thrown in free with some PA kit. Stanton 505 disco cartridge but it tracked fine at around 3 grams and I reckon it gave a really good stable performance.
Hope I haven't confused you, I just wanted to warn about getting "auction fever" and paying over the odds online.

Andy.
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 8:45 pm   #48
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Thanks, everyone.

I'm still looking at things and I am wondering whether to take me time an go for something a little better. I appreciate Andy's comment as I am wary of paying over £100 for used gear especially when you factor in a new cart etc. I have been very surprised at the prices things are going for on ebay. I'm certain people are paying over the odds for certain TTs, hence my question about whether the decks I am considering were OK.

I am truly confused about vintage vs budget new TTs. I was assuming that vintage would be a lot better but i may have been wrong. I get questions in my mid like " how does an entry level Pro-ject compare to a Linn Axis?" if you know what I mean.

Thanks again.
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 8:55 pm   #49
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The Linn Axis is better. However, budget hifi record decks have always sounded quite good. The Pioneer PL12D was a budget deck. The two Dual models you quote are budget decks but are capable of very acceptable results. The current production low end Pro-Jects are also budget decks and will sound very similar.

As I understand it, you are trying to build a decent mid range hifi system for a minimum outlay. You can obviously spend 2k on a record deck and cartridge if you want to, but you are getting into serious audiophile territory then (though not the lunatic fringe - you can spend much more than that).
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Old 22nd Jun 2016, 11:22 pm   #50
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Ah yes the Linn Axis. I had one for many years. Lovely bit of kit. I preferred it to the LP12 I owned briefly. it used to be possible to pick one up for £150 or so but a lot seem to be vandalised by having the arm removed which depresses me.

I can concur with You Paul about spending more too. I confess to being afflicted but I managed to get a nice highish end deck and arm by a bit of judicious shopping for used equipment.

A.
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Old 23rd Jun 2016, 9:07 am   #51
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You have answered my question ever so clearly, Paul. Thank you very much. I have a much clearer picture in my head now about where everything stands. Sure, I would love a Linn Axis but they are too expensive, now. Think I'll be sticking to something second-hand.
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Old 23rd Jun 2016, 11:59 am   #52
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You could only buy an axis used now anyway, They ceased production quite a long time ago. I will say that as long as they haven't been abused by previous owners they are very good and well engineered. I remember mine developed a fault on the electronic speed board and it was repaired with a bit of info from a friend for the cost of a high voltage electrolytic. So they are serviceable.
and spares are still available from Linn and at surprisingly reasonable prices for belts and lid hinges etc. As I discovered.

It may seem a bit cheeky, but if theres a good dealer near you with a demo room you can usually get an audition of a deck or other kit.
You should be able to find one in brum that doesn't only sell expensive bling audio.

There are still "honest purveyors" of Hi fi and audio out there and many also do used stuff with a bit of warranty. I know it may seem to go against the grain a bit but my experience with my local dealer has generally been good and he often sells used kit below Ebay prices which surprised me at first.

I think you have enough "common sense" to filter out the wheat from the chaff so keep a look out, that bargain is out there with your name on it.

A.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 4:42 pm   #53
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Hi everyone,

With apologies for the delay I thought that I'd update you all on what I purchased in the end. It may be of benefit to someone, somewhere.

My objective was to build a decent quality sound system for me and the family. I haven't got a clue about hifi. Here's what I ended up with:

CD Player: Marantz CD567SE

Amplifier: Kenwood KA 3020 Special Edition

Turntable: Hitachi HT324 with Ortofon VMS20E Cartridge

Speakers: Mission 774

Total outlay was less than £200.

We are really pleased with the system and it sounds great. I'm not that a hifi expert would have put these particular separates together but to the untrained ear they sound pretty darned good!

I wouldn't have gone for the amplifier as I'm not sure about how good Kenwood equipment is but I saw a really good review for it so I went for it. It cost £25 and was an absolute bargain. It needs some attention as the one channel does not work. I want to get it working so I can have a set of second speakers in the next room.

The CD player is very nice and I chose the speakers, which I found the most difficult thing to decide upon, as they are floor standing. One of the tips in this thread was to go for floor standing speakers.

The most surprising element is the turntable. I can't believe how good it sounds. I would never have gone for something like this if it wasn't for the advice that I got in this very thread. Apparently, I got lucky with the cartridge but even so it is a great turntable. OK, it isn't a mega-deck but it is really, really good. It's very musical and you can hear everything beautifully. I guess it lacks the euphoria of a Linn but it is amazingly good for £35. Everyone loves listening to it. I plugged our iPod into the amplifier for comparison and that sounded thin, dull and utterly inferior to the Hitachi turntable.

The turntable and the CD player sound very similar, in fact.

I am most grateful for all of the help and advice that I received in this thread. We've got a very good quality system in the house and we all enjoy listening to both CDs and vinyl. It's brought music into the home, which was the entire point of the exercise.

Thanks to everyone who took time to help me.

By the way, my ten year old son came up to me a few days after everything was set up and said "You know Dad, I actually prefer listening to LPs rather than CDs." I guess that settles the CD/LP debate, then!

I'm concentrating on searching for a collection of LPs or CDs at present. I also want to get the amp fixed (we are in Sutton Coldfield if there's anyone near me that you can recommend) and I also want to find some more speakers for the lounge. Thoughts and ideas about what would go well with the existing set up would be gratefully received.

Once again, my sincere thanks to the community here.

Last edited by Station X; 10th Feb 2018 at 6:19 pm. Reason: Threads merged.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 4:52 pm   #54
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I can't walk past a charity shop without going in to look at the vinyl on offer. A lot of it is from the 1960s and 1970s which is my area and for some unknown reason most of it seems to be in excellent condition and of course dead cheap.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 6:17 pm   #55
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Nothing wrong with that setup.

Charity shops are a good source of both records and CDs. CDs can be a real bargain - some shops sell them for a pound each, and the technology means any damage is unlikely to produce audible effects. The smaller charities such as local hospices and animal rescue centres tend to be cheaper than the big national outfits like Oxfam or the BHF.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 7:02 pm   #56
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A nice set up - but you say in Post #53 concerning the Kenwood amp that "the one channel does not work". Does this mean you are playing all your LPs and CDs just through one channel of a stereo amp? This can't be a satisfactory situation for you at all.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 9:19 pm   #57
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Please forgive me if this is a stupid question but did they forget the tone and balance controls on the Pioneer A400?

Mike
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 9:23 pm   #58
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It comes from the era when tone controls were briefly unfashionable on hifi amps. My Marantz PM66SE is the same. It isn't usually a problem with a well balanced system as the controls would be set for a flat response anyway.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 10:03 pm   #59
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That sounds a cracking setup and for only £200, give yourself a pat on the back!
Even if you have to pay a little to get your amp singing again you are quids in!

Andy.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 10:47 pm   #60
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Thanks Paul
I had wondered if the controls were hidden or only accessed from a remote control. But then that would not be very useful if the remote was lost like the one for my old Pioneer A-X 440 "nothing special amp".
My 60+ year old ears hear things very differently to my sons, which are only 25 years old, some treble boost is often needed for me, everyone's hearing is different, no one hears a recorded piece the same.
I cant think an amp like the Pioneer A400 would be at all useful and a poor buy, also it seems very conceited of a manufacturer to think their amp is so good it does not need to cater for different tastes, room acoustics and hearing abilities of potential users.

To anyone looking to buy any hi fi setup, dont worry too much about the amp, most 80's and onwards amps that can produce 50 watts plus will be adequate. The most important components in the whole affair are the input sources, CD, tuner, record deck and the output device, the speakers, get the best you can afford, and as already stated good speakers need to be big and heavy.

Mike
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