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Old 17th Dec 2012, 11:04 pm   #1
GLENZ32
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Default Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

Hi guys, finally got a chance last night to take some photos of this Pye 201T, which I got a few months ago along with a donor for parts. This is now one of the oldest sets in my collection.
What you are looking at is an early example of Pye televisions that were being made here in New Zealand at the time.

The 201T started off in December of 1959 with an initial run of 300 according to my knowledge, but not sure how many more were manufactured and how many years this model ran for, BillyT might be able to shed some more light on this?

Both sets came from the same person and are not in the best of condition, cabinets/chassis have suffered due to sitting outside or in a very damp shed/garage. One set is slightly better than the other and thats what is shown here.

Like your native Pye TV's this chassis is live with series filament chain running P series valves. The CRT is a Philips AW 53-80, not the sort of tube I'm used to seeing . The chassis mounts on the side of cabinet and the whole thing slides out, making access and servicing very easy.

I have no idea if the circuit is based on an English or Australian design, it could very well be an NZ only design. I scanned the circuit here so you can have a look at it.

In regards to the valve lineup, it uses mostly PCF80's through out the set.

PCF80 - Oscillator/Mixer
PCC84 - RF Amp
PCF80 - 1st I.F./Sync Clipper
PCF80 - 2nd I.F./Sync Separator
PCF80 - 3rd I.F./AGC Key
PCF80 - Video Amp/Video C.F.
PCF80 - Sound Limiter/Sound I.F.
PCL82 - Sound Output/Audio Amp
PCF80 - Horizontal Oscillator
PCL82 - Vertical Output/Oscillator
PL36 - Line Output
PY81 - Boost Diode
DY87 - EHT
PY82 - HT Rectifiers

So I class the 201T as being rather rare and the 'better' one is going to be a project and a half!
When I do get to this, I'll focus on getting the chassis up and running first and worry about the cabinet later.

There is a lot of wax caps and resistors under there which will all be past their 'use by date' so I've got some work ahead of me with this beast.
Hopefully one/both of the picture tubes are still OK. I should test them first.

I doubt whether there are many more of this model that still exists most of them would be buried long ago so I've only got these to work with.
Here are some photos for your enjoyment. Feel free to comment on your thoughts etc. Can anyone guess what the car is in the background?

Cheers Glen.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 11:06 pm   #2
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

More Photos + Circuit Diagram and last photo is the donor.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 11:43 pm   #3
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

Hi Glen,
It's a Pye all right, but I've never seen any Pye TV like it before.
The tuner unit looks like the familiar unit fitted in UK made thirteen channel sets between 1953 to about 1958. Even that line output stage cage is similar to some UK made Pye sets. I'll take a picture of my Pye Continental set tomorrow just to show the similar construction technique.
The circuit diagram has that certain Pye look about it as well.
A really wonderful find.

DFWB.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 3:58 am   #4
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

It has an interesting circuit that certainly demonstrates the Mullard publicity about the many uses for the PCF80. However, using the triode as an agc rectifier and the pentode as an IF amplifier was, I think, on the Mullard “not recommended” list.

One wonders whether the use of sharp cutoff pentodes for the gain controlled 1st and 2nd IF amplifiers was one enforced by the desire to use the PCF80 in both positions for valve-count economy, or whether sharp cutoff was preferred, thus use of the PCF80 was allowed. The use of a PCF80 triode section for the 1st sound IF amplifier seems to have been a case of convenience, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLENZ32 View Post
Can anyone guess what the car is in the background?
Hmmmm. First thought was maybe an EK Holden. But then fleetingly, perhaps a Vauxhall PAX, but I think not.

Cheers,
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 7:22 am   #5
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLENZ32 View Post
The 201T started off in December of 1959 with an initial run of 300 according to my knowledge, but not sure how many more were manufactured and how many years this model ran for, Billy T might be able to shed some more light on this? Cheers Glen.
I love a challenge

I think it was based on an Australian chassis, the T12-3D (just like those Aussies to claim 3D before we even had 2D working properly) but I wouldn't swear to that because I don't recall seeing an Aussie model myself. However, my 201T circuit does have some hand-written cross references to the aussie model.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure it was Pye's launch set in NZ and I'm equally sure it had a relatively short production run, probably less than a year. I have no statistics for that, but we saw very few for service, yet the next model, the T18, was more numerous so it was seen much more frequently even though its reliability was par for the course in those days.

The 201T was actually a bit of a pig to service but the next model, the T18, addressed that problem by having a horizontal chassis, serviced by putting it upside down on a trolley and removing the bottom cover. However, that made valve replacements very awkward, and Pye quickly moved to a fold-down chassis style which was far better from a servicing point of view.

Cheers

Billy

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Old 18th Dec 2012, 9:45 am   #6
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

From the look of the chassis I'm fairly sure it is closely based on the Australian Pye T12 chassis as Billy correctly stated. The fact that the power supply parts are mounted on a metal plate where the transformer would normally fit on the Australian version suggests that the chassis metal work is sourced from (or at least stamped on) the Australian tooling.

Be interesting to know if the chassis were imported complete and modified or if they were assembled locally in NZ with parts sourced from Pye Australia.

The Australian design would have borrowed from Pye UK expertise before branching out on its own development path.

I've attached the schematic and layout of the Australian T12 chassis for comparison. Aside from deleting the power transformer not much else changed!
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 10:09 am   #7
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

For one moment I thought we might see a PCF80 acting as line output valve... Very much Pye with hints of the V14 and just about every other Pye model of the period. Both chassis look good.
The AW53-80 is a very good tube and should give outstanding pictures. The best of luck with them. Regards, John.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 11:08 am   #8
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

The PYE is a little bit too modern for me. The car looks to have an Austin-style grille. Might it be a Tasman?
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 1:43 pm   #9
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

Here's another TV that uses a lot of PCF80s. The Regentone model TT7 of 1956. The RGD THE17 has the same chassis but is housed in a different style cabnet. I think it was a very good idea to employ the PCF80 or ECF80/6BL8 in the IF stages. Comparable performance as the EF80 plus an extra triode section for other circuit functions such as AGC keying, pulse clippers etc.

DFWB.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 6:35 pm   #10
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

Yet another great find. As for the car, Austin Westminster?
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 10:28 pm   #11
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

Well it looks like this model is closely related to the Australian T-12 version and looking at circuits between the two they do look almost the same - Thanks BillyT & AndrewM. So going by BillyT's comments about the 201T they must not have made that many so I've got a couple of rare sets it seems
I'm sort of debating whether I should make this my next set to tackle, have just about finished that Murphy which has taken longer than expected due to time constraints...Hmm don't know, will see.. It would be really good to see a picture on this and going by the comments about the picture tube, the image should be good. I better check my stock of PCF80's! Pretty certain I've got heaps.
Jayceebee - You are right! Its an A99 Westminster

Thanks for the replies and postive comments so far everyone Cheers!
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 7:40 am   #12
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

Attached is the circuit for an NZ PYE 201T and it does indeed mirror the Oz model, though I haven't checked it in any detail.

The plethora of PCF 80's was enough to convince me! The main deviation is the absence of any mains transformers, apart from a small unit for the CRT filament.

I reckon you have cornered the market on 201T's Glen, because they were very thin on the ground indeed in our workshop. We would have been putting through 30-40 sets a day, and that was a small fraction of the field staff's workload. They would not have pulled a 210T chassis in the field, that was not the sort of thing you would do on a customer's carpet, so if it was anything other than a valve or other 'top of the chassis' component we probably would have had it in the workshop. Similarly for the T18 and T18X, if the customer was home we'd never have turned them upside down in their presence.

Cheers

Billy
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 12:04 am   #13
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

The line output compartment of the 1957 Pye CTM17S.

DFWB.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 1:12 am   #14
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

Hi Billy, yes those two circuits are very close and even the layout is the same so this is where the 201T was derived from. And your comments about seeing very few from the early days or servicing confirms that the 201T is definitely a rare set. All I need to find now is a Pye T18! Cheers Glen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy T View Post
Attached is the circuit for an NZ PYE 201T and it does indeed mirror the Oz model, though I haven't checked it in any detail.

The plethora of PCF 80's was enough to convince me! The main deviation is the absence of any mains transformers, apart from a small unit for the CRT filament.

I reckon you have cornered the market on 201T's Glen, because they were very thin on the ground indeed in our workshop. We would have been putting through 30-40 sets a day, and that was a small fraction of the field staff's workload. They would not have pulled a 210T chassis in the field, that was not the sort of thing you would do on a customer's carpet, so if it was anything other than a valve or other 'top of the chassis' component we probably would have had it in the workshop. Similarly for the T18 and T18X, if the customer was home we'd never have turned them upside down in their presence.

Cheers

Billy
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 1:13 am   #15
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

That layout does look similar in a lot of ways.... who copied who then?

Quote:
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The line output compartment of the 1957 Pye CTM17S.

DFWB.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 3:02 am   #16
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLENZ32 View Post
Hi Billy, yes those two circuits are very close and even the layout is the same so this is where the 201T was derived from. And your comments about seeing very few from the early days or servicing confirms that the 201T is definitely a rare set. All I need to find now is a Pye T18! Cheers Glen
The T18 is a derivative of the 201T, so you'll be really at home with that one Glen; at a glance the principal difference is an autotransformer for the CRT filament hanging off the end of the series filament chain.

The T18X is also derivative, and has a full mains transformer, but it retains the series filaments of a secondary winding and uses another secondary winding off the tranny for the CRT filament.

After the T18X I think they ran out of Boer-War Surplus PCF80's and moved into more conventional types.

Personally I think that the main reason for the short run of 201Ts was the difficulty in providing field service. The circuit was not problematic, but having to pull the chassis for anything much more than a valve change made them uneconomic, awkward and inappropriate for field servicing.

Cheers

Billy
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 3:15 am   #17
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Default Re: Pye 201T 21" TV - Early NZ Manufacture

Thanks Billy, what what I've seen of American sets from the 1950's and 60's on the Internet that side mounting chassis layout seemed to be a common thing back then, but have to agree for servicing purposes would have been a right pain and the horrified look on the customers face when the serviceman started to pull 'all' the control knobs off and proceeded to 'gut' the set right there and then just to change a component underneath! Well lets hope in 2013 a T18 finds me or I find it. Cheers. PS Yeah you're probably right about the PCF80's too!
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