Name that Baird - Page 2 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Heatercathodeshort · 17th Feb 2013, 11:05 am

I still insist it is an 1807 attempting to disguise it's past by hiding in a Thorn 3000 cabinet. John.

audiomagpie · 17th Feb 2013, 12:04 pm

Nice one John!

Does this mean you are now taking orders for bespoke tube surround mask manufacturing?

Greg

Mikey405 · 18th Feb 2013, 10:06 pm

Sorry for the delay in replying everyone. I'm afraid I don't know the answer - I was emailed the picture and asked to identify it. I think the consensus of opinion is that it's a Thorn 3000 with the oddball Mazda 22 inch tube. I shall reply back to that effect.

Thanks everyone for their suggestions (and the excellent picture John).

Kind regards.

From Mike.

TNC · 19th Feb 2013, 4:53 am

Mikey,
I have just stumbled on this thread...I am 99.99% certain that is is a Radio Rentals 19inch Baird. It was our families first colour tv and was installed in the summer of 1971. (I am clear about the date because I signed the agreement and paid the rent! My father was unimpressed by ctv...or more likely not happy about paying to rent one.)

Shortly thereafter I moved out and took it with me!

Trevor.

Heatercathodeshort · 19th Feb 2013, 10:39 am

It could well be a 19"..If you measure the width of the push button assembly and compare it with the diagonal of the tube, then compare it with my 19" model 3000, give or take, it works out about right. I'm going for a 19" tube the same as you Trevor. [This is madness! Stop it Mikey] John.

Heatercathodeshort · 19th Feb 2013, 10:47 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiomagpie

Does this mean you are now taking orders for bespoke tube surround mask manufacturing?

No Greg. I'm really not into rubber goods. It's an art and an incredibly complicated procedure.. John

ntscuser · 25th Mar 2013, 11:58 pm

Was Baird ever a manufacturer of colour TV sets or was it just a name used by Radio Rentals for sets from various manufacturers?

FERNSEH · 26th Mar 2013, 1:33 am

Nevertheless, RR did make colour TVs from 1967 to 1969 when the company was acquired by Thorn. The first CTV model was the 700 followed by the later 710 series. RR set up a subsidiary Baird Television Distributors which offered TV sets to independent dealers. Model numbers were prefixed M, for example M670, M700. RR only bought in one set from another manufacturer, the Baird model 705 was a rebadged GEC 2028.
After the Thorn takeover the Baird technology continued when Decca Radio and Television Ltd took over the factory in Bradford.
We now know that the brand MRG was used by Baird Television.
MRG = Mains Radio Grams.
After WW2 the Baird name was used by many companiies and by the late 1950s became the Bradford based manufacturer.

DFWB.

dazzlevision · 26th Mar 2013, 9:51 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FERNSEH

After the Thorn takeover the Baird technology continued when Decca Radio and Television Ltd took over the factory in Bradford.
We now know that the brand MRG was used by Baird Television.
MRG = Mains Radio Grams.

Hello,

Are you sure about this?

According to my researches, after Thorn took over RR in 1968, the RR factory in Bradford continued to make TVs, but with Thorn chassis. It was subsequently closed by Thorn in 1978.

Decca R&TV took on at least some of the former RR television design engineers following the Thorn takeover, but Decca sets were made in their Bridgnorth factory (formerly RGD, then AT&E works). Decca TVs saw a step change in their electronic and mechanical design at that time; even their circuit diagrams became very "Baird".

I think that Decca R&TV may have had their design centre somewhere in Bradford, at least until Tatung acquired it an relocated all operations to a new site in Telford.

Mains Radio Gramophones Ltd was acquired by RR in 1945 and later, in 1961, RR changed the MRG company name to Baird Television Ltd, after it acquired the Baird brand name from the ashes of Ambassador Baird/Hartley Baird/Camp Bird and started branding their TVs "Baird", rather than "MRG" or "RR".

Regards,

Dazzlevsion

FERNSEH · 26th Mar 2013, 10:47 am

Hi Dazzlevision,
Yes, you are right. Thorn acquired RR in 1968. So did the Bradford factory assemble Baird sets there fitted with the 3000 chassis for a short while? The 3000 chassis appeared late 1969.
Just as well that Decca R & T took over the Bradford TV design dept. because let's be honest the companies own CTV designs were nothing more than junk. I hated the things, you just have to read about my experiences with a CTV25 elsewhere on this forum.
Rest assured I won't have a dual standard Decca CTV in my collection.
Best forgotten.
The "Bradford" Decca CTVs did have a Baird look about them. Check the service manuals and you see that the mains transformer is designated T600. Just like the 700 and 710 models.

DFWB.

dazzlevision · 26th Mar 2013, 1:45 pm

Hello David,

Yes, the former RR Bradford factory did assemble Baird sets with Thorn 3000 innards, model 8724, as shown in Mike Bennett's website (a typical large 25" Baird console CTV, very reminiscent of the previous Baird D/Std 700 and 710 CTV ranges).

I tend to agree with you about the Decca CTV 25 series of dual (and at least one 625 only version) sets. Some of the Decca dual standard monos were pretty good though, apart from their first UHF/625 only one with an MJE340 transistor used as the audio output stage, which was succeded by the "Baird" MS2001 single PCB range (an excellent set with that huge vertically mounted mains dropper).

Regards,

Dazzlevision

FERNSEH · 26th Mar 2013, 2:14 pm

I believe the MS2001 chassis was called the 20 series?

DFWB.

dazzlevision · 26th Mar 2013, 2:23 pm

Yes. I think you are correct.

MALC SCOTT · 26th Mar 2013, 2:24 pm

Is that the chassis which had a plug in loptx? I remember a electrolytic in the frame o/p explodes? Very good sets, apart from that and mains dropper.

dazzlevision · 26th Mar 2013, 2:42 pm

Hello Malc,

The Decca "20" chassis (designed by former Baird engineers), used a small, soldered in, Philips/Mullard LOPT (very similar to that used in the ITT VC200 chassis). I have an example of the 20" Varicap tuned version (MS2020) and it does produce a very good picture, with no intercarrier buzz on the sound. The four pushbutton (German made, Telefunken-NSF or HOPT?) mechanical UHF tuners used in the MS2001 series weren't very reliable.

The previous "real" Decca single standard set (MS2000) used a Plessey made LOPT (not very reliable!), which plugged into the timebase PCB at the bottom of the set. The same arrangement was used in the earlier dual standard versions (e.g. DR121), which had a very similar timebase panel at the bottom of the set.

Regards,

Dazzlevision

MALC SCOTT · 26th Mar 2013, 3:38 pm

I remember it now, it was the dual standard one i am thinking of.

Welsh Anorak · 27th Mar 2013, 2:43 pm

Hi
The last single-standard monos (MS2020 and so on) were great - a good picture, modern looking, light and easy to fix. There was also a Telefusion set that used almost the same circuitry in a different layout, using a couple of mains transformers instead of the dropper. They were awful sets and never seemed to work well.
This happened to the poor old Bradford as well - remember the Telpro, Tristar and so on that went wrong all the time and never seemed to perform properly? I assume the same people made that. No idea why they did it - both the monos and the Bradford were relatively easy sets to repair which these 'rental specials' weren't.
I don't think anyone was keen on the Decca CTV25 - short wires everywhere and one of the ugliest cabinets (IMHO) ever. Made the Bush look pretty! (before it exploded...)
Glyn
PS Re post #28 - didn't RR import Korting hybrids under the Baird badge with a simpler control panel?

dazzlevision · 27th Mar 2013, 3:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak

PS Re post #28 - didn't RR import Korting hybrids under the Baird badge with a simpler control panel?

Hello Glyn,

Yes, Radio Rentals (Thorn Television Rentals by then) did import at least two Baird branded Kortings.

The Baird 8750 (= Korting 53633) was a hybrid 90 degree delta gun CRT set, with a simpler control panel and varicap tuning. Nice set, easy to work on and produced a good picture.

The Baird 8752 (= Korting 54635) was a 110 degree delta gun CRT solid-state set with thyristor line timebase (I've never worked on one of these).

Regards,

Dazzlevision

Welsh Anorak · 27th Mar 2013, 3:08 pm

Hi
DZ - you're a lucky man. Unlike the highly-regarded hybrids, the solid-state set was a disaster. Mounted centally was a trip PCB with a thyristor. This failed, overloading a large 11W resitor, conveniently situated just below the plastic back. In a short time (no pun intended) the back burst into flames. We knew of several fires locally due to this, some serious, and the last TV repairer could well be interviewed. Luckily I was never involved, other than in a forensic capacity, but we would refuse to repair such sets on sight.
Glyn

Roberto41240972 · 17th Mar 2014, 10:14 am

Wow that photo of that very same baird set but we had one the same one but it was in dark wood rather the lighter colour... We rented it from Radio Rentals Reading from 1976 to 1981 the metal stand came with it wasnt strong enough it collapsed on my mum when she was hoovering lol... used to use channel 4 for my old binatone black and white video games like pong lol.. those were the days.

17th Feb 2013, 11:05 am	#21
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: Name that Baird I still insist it is an 1807 attempting to disguise it's past by hiding in a Thorn 3000 cabinet. John. Attached Thumbnails

17th Feb 2013, 12:04 pm	#22
audiomagpie Heptode Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rugby, Warwickshire, UK. Posts: 825	Re: Name that Baird Nice one John! Does this mean you are now taking orders for bespoke tube surround mask manufacturing? Greg __________________ Greg BVWS committee chairman

18th Feb 2013, 10:06 pm	#23
Mikey405 Octode Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Solihull, West Midlands and Beaford, Devon Posts: 1,626	Re: Name that Baird Sorry for the delay in replying everyone. I'm afraid I don't know the answer - I was emailed the picture and asked to identify it. I think the consensus of opinion is that it's a Thorn 3000 with the oddball Mazda 22 inch tube. I shall reply back to that effect. Thanks everyone for their suggestions (and the excellent picture John). Kind regards. From Mike. __________________ G7TRF

19th Feb 2013, 4:53 am	#24
TNC Hexode Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westcliff-on-Sea, Essex, UK. Posts: 386	Re: Name that Baird Mikey, I have just stumbled on this thread...I am 99.99% certain that is is a Radio Rentals 19inch Baird. It was our families first colour tv and was installed in the summer of 1971. (I am clear about the date because I signed the agreement and paid the rent! My father was unimpressed by ctv...or more likely not happy about paying to rent one.) Shortly thereafter I moved out and took it with me! Trevor.

19th Feb 2013, 10:39 am	#25
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: Name that Baird It could well be a 19"..If you measure the width of the push button assembly and compare it with the diagonal of the tube, then compare it with my 19" model 3000, give or take, it works out about right. I'm going for a 19" tube the same as you Trevor. [This is madness! Stop it Mikey] John.

25th Mar 2013, 11:58 pm	#27
ntscuser Hexode Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Coventry, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 280	Re: Name that Baird Was Baird ever a manufacturer of colour TV sets or was it just a name used by Radio Rentals for sets from various manufacturers?

26th Mar 2013, 1:33 am	#28
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Name that Baird Nevertheless, RR did make colour TVs from 1967 to 1969 when the company was acquired by Thorn. The first CTV model was the 700 followed by the later 710 series. RR set up a subsidiary Baird Television Distributors which offered TV sets to independent dealers. Model numbers were prefixed M, for example M670, M700. RR only bought in one set from another manufacturer, the Baird model 705 was a rebadged GEC 2028. After the Thorn takeover the Baird technology continued when Decca Radio and Television Ltd took over the factory in Bradford. We now know that the brand MRG was used by Baird Television. MRG = Mains Radio Grams. After WW2 the Baird name was used by many companiies and by the late 1950s became the Bradford based manufacturer. DFWB.

26th Mar 2013, 10:47 am	#30
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Name that Baird Hi Dazzlevision, Yes, you are right. Thorn acquired RR in 1968. So did the Bradford factory assemble Baird sets there fitted with the 3000 chassis for a short while? The 3000 chassis appeared late 1969. Just as well that Decca R & T took over the Bradford TV design dept. because let's be honest the companies own CTV designs were nothing more than junk. I hated the things, you just have to read about my experiences with a CTV25 elsewhere on this forum. Rest assured I won't have a dual standard Decca CTV in my collection. Best forgotten. The "Bradford" Decca CTVs did have a Baird look about them. Check the service manuals and you see that the mains transformer is designated T600. Just like the 700 and 710 models. DFWB.

26th Mar 2013, 1:45 pm	#31
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,621	Re: Name that Baird Hello David, Yes, the former RR Bradford factory did assemble Baird sets with Thorn 3000 innards, model 8724, as shown in Mike Bennett's website (a typical large 25" Baird console CTV, very reminiscent of the previous Baird D/Std 700 and 710 CTV ranges). I tend to agree with you about the Decca CTV 25 series of dual (and at least one 625 only version) sets. Some of the Decca dual standard monos were pretty good though, apart from their first UHF/625 only one with an MJE340 transistor used as the audio output stage, which was succeded by the "Baird" MS2001 single PCB range (an excellent set with that huge vertically mounted mains dropper). Regards, Dazzlevision Last edited by dazzlevision; 26th Mar 2013 at 2:12 pm.

26th Mar 2013, 2:14 pm	#32
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Name that Baird I believe the MS2001 chassis was called the 20 series? DFWB.

26th Mar 2013, 2:23 pm	#33
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,621	Re: Name that Baird Yes. I think you are correct.

26th Mar 2013, 2:24 pm	#34
MALC SCOTT Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Willington, County Durham, UK. Posts: 1,499	Re: Name that Baird Is that the chassis which had a plug in loptx? I remember a electrolytic in the frame o/p explodes? Very good sets, apart from that and mains dropper. __________________ Malc Scott

26th Mar 2013, 2:42 pm	#35
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,621	Re: Name that Baird Hello Malc, The Decca "20" chassis (designed by former Baird engineers), used a small, soldered in, Philips/Mullard LOPT (very similar to that used in the ITT VC200 chassis). I have an example of the 20" Varicap tuned version (MS2020) and it does produce a very good picture, with no intercarrier buzz on the sound. The four pushbutton (German made, Telefunken-NSF or HOPT?) mechanical UHF tuners used in the MS2001 series weren't very reliable. The previous "real" Decca single standard set (MS2000) used a Plessey made LOPT (not very reliable!), which plugged into the timebase PCB at the bottom of the set. The same arrangement was used in the earlier dual standard versions (e.g. DR121), which had a very similar timebase panel at the bottom of the set. Regards, Dazzlevision

26th Mar 2013, 3:38 pm	#36
MALC SCOTT Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Willington, County Durham, UK. Posts: 1,499	Re: Name that Baird I remember it now, it was the dual standard one i am thinking of. __________________ Malc Scott

27th Mar 2013, 2:43 pm	#37
Welsh Anorak Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Wales, UK. Posts: 6,927	Re: Name that Baird Hi The last single-standard monos (MS2020 and so on) were great - a good picture, modern looking, light and easy to fix. There was also a Telefusion set that used almost the same circuitry in a different layout, using a couple of mains transformers instead of the dropper. They were awful sets and never seemed to work well. This happened to the poor old Bradford as well - remember the Telpro, Tristar and so on that went wrong all the time and never seemed to perform properly? I assume the same people made that. No idea why they did it - both the monos and the Bradford were relatively easy sets to repair which these 'rental specials' weren't. I don't think anyone was keen on the Decca CTV25 - short wires everywhere and one of the ugliest cabinets (IMHO) ever. Made the Bush look pretty! (before it exploded...) Glyn PS Re post #28 - didn't RR import Korting hybrids under the Baird badge with a simpler control panel?

27th Mar 2013, 3:08 pm	#39
Welsh Anorak Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Wales, UK. Posts: 6,927	Re: Name that Baird Hi DZ - you're a lucky man. Unlike the highly-regarded hybrids, the solid-state set was a disaster. Mounted centally was a trip PCB with a thyristor. This failed, overloading a large 11W resitor, conveniently situated just below the plastic back. In a short time (no pun intended) the back burst into flames. We knew of several fires locally due to this, some serious, and the last TV repairer could well be interviewed. Luckily I was never involved, other than in a forensic capacity, but we would refuse to repair such sets on sight. Glyn

17th Mar 2014, 10:14 am	#40
Roberto41240972 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Posts: 59	Re: Name that Baird Wow that photo of that very same baird set but we had one the same one but it was in dark wood rather the lighter colour... We rented it from Radio Rentals Reading from 1976 to 1981 the metal stand came with it wasnt strong enough it collapsed on my mum when she was hoovering lol... used to use channel 4 for my old binatone black and white video games like pong lol.. those were the days.