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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 10:32 pm   #1
gec2110
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Default GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

This is a bit of fun.

These sets are similar designs circuit wise, but of course a different approach to PCB layout but which do you prefer for preformance, style of cabinets and reliability picture quality and sound? For me the top is the GEC 2110 series.

PRO:

Great circuit board lay out good colour pic, good sound on the wooden cabinet version.
Funny model names like STARLINE, LIVING COLOUR. Single line output transistor.

AGAINST:

Poor sound with plastic cabinet models. Plastic cabinets very flimsy. Double sided print especially on convergence panel. Touch tuning, neon version unreliable

Last edited by Darren-UK; 3rd Nov 2011 at 12:50 am. Reason: Punctuation added.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 12:34 am   #2
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Default Re: Gec2110 g8 a823 which is top

This is one where you have to be a little time (date) or model specific, I think.

For example, they all had disasters, even if some versions were good and could give good pictures...

The GEC was a later design than the others... by quite a way.
Even so, early GEC sets had line output tuning caps that went o/c causing sky high EHT, usually popped the protection zener, but also usually blew up the line o/p stage and other things as well. I've seen tubes with pin holes through the neck and no vacuum left due to this. Also, some had stupid touch tune selectors that had customers jumping in the air to get them to change channel. And intermittent joints that could defy finding.
Poor componets everywhere, but sometimes in places thay would cause mayhem, such as the voltage regulation components on the psu. There were a lot of variants here, looks like they did the product development in customers' houses.

G8... Generally good, but who remembers the early decoder with the sub-panel because the TBA530 wasn't ready yet? I still have one of those sub-boards. They weren't too good.
Later G8's had very different design here, a single panel, but LOPT's etc were not the best.

Rank A823.... (gets my vote) especially the "mid-life" versions with single chip decoder, later (silicon audio stage) i.f. board, no varicap tuner, and late version of the original scan drive panel.
The i.f. response on these was super, as was the sound, and the pictures were sharp stable and bright when set up properly. The old mechanical tuners were great, except for the tuning cams that fall to pieces, and the buttons that wear out... top tip, put a 2BA washer on the shaft so that it takes the brunt of channel changing, and the buttons get an easier life.
Why did they continue to use that stupid thermistor in the thyristor psu, a soft start system could have been added easily and would have saved a lot of grief... as used by GEC.

Full circle methinks !

Pete
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 8:10 am   #3
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

I must say I very much liked the GEC 2110 series. Once the modified neons had been fitted, the touch tune channel selector calmed down and gave no further trouble. The third harmonic .005uf capacitors originally fitted to the A823 series chassis were a disaster also. They were polystyrene types and were replaced by a special capacitor made by Plessey .0047uf 1500v 16kc/s. [Bright green!] I think all these first generation 3rd harmonic capacitors in most makes failed in the early days including the ones fitted to the Thorn 3000 chassis. The picture was far better on the GEC and was fitted with a higher gain tuner and I.F. assembly. It was easier to service and had a much lower call rate. Ok, some versions had a cheap finish but personally I would rather see the money put into the electronics than a fancy frock. I never had a problem with GEC receivers and once you mastered the knack of removing components from the plated panels it was all aboard and anchors away. The early versions of the G8 were superb but as always, the design was ruined by constant cost cutting, the usual British disease.Regards, John.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 9:59 am   #4
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

I chose the 2110 or at least the Granada equivalent as my standard rental set because it was so easy to repair in situ - and gave a good picture.

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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 12:01 pm   #5
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

Both the G8 and the 2110 are great sets producing good results and are nice to work on. They both suffer from tuner selector problems which are easily sorted and the early G8 with that decoder is not the best. If you are going for the GEC 2110 be very aware of the double sided pcb's.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 12:31 pm   #6
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

I don't think the Starline name was ever used on a C2110 series set, it was for the in-line models (20AX / Hitachi PIL).

I'd rank them:

1) G8. The massive resources of Philips always seem to yield a good product, they made all their own components (tubes, semiconductors, passives, wound assemblies) too so in effect they could have whatever they wanted. Nice styling on the whole as well, especially the Nouveau 22. I always liked working on them, it all seemed very carefully thought out.
2) C2110. A poor-man's G8 in many ways but the decoder and IF sections are good and when did you ever have to change a dropper resistor in one? Only the timebases detract, that silly arrangement with the 47V zener in the emitter circuit of the line output transistor was a constant pain and the frame circuit was far from trouble free either. My other moans are that when the big electrolytics leak goo it ruins the power supply PCB and that stupid plastic cabinet that the C2111 had. Nice Hitachi tubes in the later ones though.
3) A823. Clever (it was one of the first solid state colour chassis) but flawed, those ICs in the decoder were far too fragile and the IF strip never seemed to quite work properly. The LOPT was good but replacing the line output transistors or the tripler was a chore. I've never seen a really good picture on one either, unlike the other two. I found them awkward to work on, thick cable forms covered in sticky residue from gaffa tape didn't help much and you couldn't easily get to both sides of the panels without dismantling things, unlike the GEC and the Philips.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 1:31 pm   #7
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

Hi all. one thing that ive wondered about for a while with the A823 chassis. is why did they turn the A803 scan drive panel around so that the height controls etc were facing inside the set? cheers neil.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 2:13 pm   #8
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

Hi Neil. I seem to remember it was due to interference between the two back to back panels causing curved verticals. Another "cure" was to wedge the two boards apart slightly with a fag packet or box of matches - surely part of many an engineer back in the day?!!!
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 3:26 pm   #9
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

Hi.
For me the Rank must come bottom of the list, PSU & Decoder faults were common and the 2 IC decoder for a rather mediocre picture.
The G8 of course has to win due to ease of servicing but the GEC has to be a close second, "Studio" sums up the GEC correctly, when working though it was a good set with an excellent picture, it was the newest of the three I believe.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 4:00 pm   #10
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

The G8 wins by a mile! Must be one of, if not the best chassis ever made. The GEC a long way back in 2nd place, as stated in a previous post The poor mans G8. The RBM sadly comes bottom of my list, mainly due to the poor performance. They were after all a very reliable set spoiled by RBM cutting corners to save a copper here and there.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 5:28 pm   #11
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

Hi everyone , it has to be the G8 for me . I have a nouveau 22 in my dining room which is used for at least 3 hours a night . It"s been sitting in the corner for three years without a problem . I would say the 2110 second leaving the A823 bottom .
Regards . Gary .
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 8:34 pm   #12
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

To me the G8 520 was the best G8.But the G8 550 very cool looking set
The GEC was indeed a poor mans G8 they (GEC) always looked asif they were not finnished off in the factory
The 3500 in a totally different class and in my opion not as good as the A823 GEC and
G8
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 8:36 pm   #13
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

Was that the nouveau 22 that was at the convention a year or so back
that was a good crt on that
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 8:58 pm   #14
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

Hi Mark , yes it was the same set that ran for 2 full days from morning to night at the tcc convention . the pictures were good on a 2110 but personally i"ve never seen a really good picture on an A823 .
Regards . Gary .
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 10:07 pm   #15
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

From my own experiences the A823 always had a rather "soft" looking picture but the raster shape always set up better than the G8 or C2110, however the C2210 seemed to converge better than the G8...

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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 10:12 pm   #16
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

For me the A823 comes bottom, mainly on grounds of picture quality. They never looked quite 'right', there was a lack of life and a dullness about the image no matter what you twiddled.
We didn't have much to do with the GEC, apart from trying to cure channel jumping!
The G8 would have to come top (of the three choices given), as it was fairly robust and reliable and the pics were pretty decent.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 10:12 pm   #17
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

The A823 needs to have a really good bright tube for a good brightness, the decoder being a problem in these sets always had hanover blinds or colour out of phase green faces when changing channels if you were lucky no colour could just have been the transistors in the chroma amp in the if can.
But the picture on that murphy 2215 on a recent post this week had an excellent picture.
All these three different chassis had their nightmares.
The GEC channel jumping was a problem but solved with the soft touch buttons improved shall i say.
The G8 sensor touch was very good but they used to suffer from tuning drift most likely to be the AFC.

Last edited by gec2110; 3rd Nov 2011 at 10:24 pm.
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 12:16 am   #18
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

The GEC's would change channels in the presence of a low energy lamp - which were pretty new in those days. I had one which the customer complained would switch off at near enough the same time each day, it was caused by the sun shining on the IR reciever.

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Old 4th Nov 2011, 11:33 am   #19
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

Just how did that A823 chassis get through RBM's quality control? Just switching it on and having a play with the controls would show up truly horrendous errors. They were a very good company producing some excellent colour receivers but the poor performance of this chassis particularly the later version was difficult to comprehend.
I suspect huge numbers were rejected at the testing stage and with panic setting in and discount warehouses screaming for receivers, they just let them go. The good thing about the GEC and Philips chassis was that they were predictable and easily serviced. I still have the extension lead set somewhere for the A823. It never was quite long enough...John.
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Old 5th Nov 2011, 8:12 am   #20
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Default Re: GEC2110 G8 A823, which is top?

John i totaly agree with you they did have some horrendous errors
the colour on these sets were very poor also the reange of the controls the contrast and the brightness
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