Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

mrjubboo · 18th Mar 2021, 3:18 pm

Hi.

We've just been getting a 4000DB reel to reel working and it's been going well. We'd like to make some amateur (very) recording of voices and gramophone to the reels and would like to know which microphones are recommended for this at a reasonable price ie about 60 quid or under for the pair.

Thanks in advance.

Radio Wrangler · 18th Mar 2021, 7:18 pm

I've used Japanese electret mikes (the type with an AA cell in the stem) with a 4000DS and had quite reasonable results. A pair of them in a crossed format for stereo.

I've also used an STC moving coil studio job, but that was with a step-up transformer.

David

wireman · 20th Mar 2021, 3:51 pm

That is a very low budget for a new pair of microphones, I'm more familiar with those at 2-4x the price. This website has a selected of budget options...

https://thehomerecordings.com/stereo-pair-microphones/

Would you be planning to hand-hold the microphones? Do you have cables (XLR to 1/4") should a microphone not come with one? I presume that the recorder could not use a phanton-power only microphone.

I have a pair of battery-powered old Sennheiser microphones with 1/4" plugs but I don't see anything similar in their range today.

Both Gear4Music and Thomann (the latter is not in the UK) are selling products in that price range and are specialist music retailers.

Hartley118 · 20th Mar 2021, 5:53 pm

I've had very pleasing results from the Tandy 'Realistic' one-piece stereo electret mike. I'm sure they're discontinued now, but for illustration here's a used example on eBay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Realistic...YaAuJJEALw_wcB

A lot further up the quality and price scale are the current range of Rode mikes. Their 'Videomic' might just fall into your price range (intended to be mounted on a camera, but also usable independently). This is an excellent directional mike but is only mono.

For a 'period piece' mike (again mono, but £60 might buy a pair), the Grampian DP4 dynamic mike from the 1960s has a good 'presence' effect on voice. For the 4000D, I think you'd need the medium impedance version. Pretty freely available on eBay, but make sure it comes complete with its unique connector.

Martin

jamesperrett · 20th Mar 2021, 10:41 pm

In the past I used to use mics like the Ross RE363 for this which is a battery powered cardioid condenser mic but I can't find a modern equivalent at a reasonable price. The Rode M3 would work but it is out of budget.

If you don't mind making up a power supply (or buying one, they need phantom power between 9-52V) these Citronic mics look like they might work and are within budget.

https://www.studiospares.com/microph...air-477800.htm

dglcomp · 21st Mar 2021, 7:25 am

At the cheapo end the Behringer XM1800S are quite acceptable, all metal bodied, plus you can get three in a plastic padded case for under £30.

arjoll · 21st Mar 2021, 10:33 am

Akai did some electret condensers in the same era - dad had a pair with his 4000DB, and found they had a transformer and two core cable just terminated in a 1/4" TS jack so chopped that off and re-terminated with a male XLR. I can't recall the model but they are not only of the period but what Akai would have sold with the recorder. I can find out what they were, in case you want to save a search on eBay. I did see a pair on Trademe many years ago, but they don't exactly come up often!

Plus4db · 21st Mar 2021, 10:56 pm

The mic pre amps on reel to reels of this era are often quite poor and unbalanced, with mid to high impedance, and only useful to about 10ft cable. So if using modern electret condensers or dynamic mics you will most likely be better using a modern pre amp with balanced XLR inputs to the line input, for quality. Having said that I recently bought a pair of period NOS recommended accessory dynamic mics, MC-106s, for my Teac, for curiosity more than anything since I have far better professional mics and preamps for my day job. Although a bit lacking in LF response and little poppy they were surprisingly good and have quite a period sound. They are 10,000ohm, which is uncommon these days. I wanted to use the mic inputs since no one seemed ever to bother with them and as I say I was curious.

majoconz · 23rd Mar 2021, 12:35 am

I bought my GX4000DB new somewhere around 1980 - it came with headphones - Akai ASE-7's which I still use - very comfortable on-ear type but the stereo plug I replaced with a mono plug to use with an HF receiver - AND two microphones with little stands - ADM25's. I don't recall ever having used them.

DMcMahon · 26th Mar 2021, 11:17 pm

From this page from the Akai 4000D Operator's Manual, looks like the DM-13 was one of the Akai microphones around at that time.

David

stevehertz · 27th Mar 2021, 8:28 am

I used and still have a pair of Altai battery powered electret mics that are surprisingly good. I think it was one of those generic designs that was altered cosmetically and badged differently for a variety of companies. I would hazard a guess that they're still available in some form or brand.

jamesperrett · 28th Mar 2021, 1:56 am

I tried searching for similar mics to your Altais before posting my previous answer but it looks like affordable battery powered electret mics are hard to find. Everyone has switched to either plug-in power (for budget mics) or phantom power (for slightly more expensive mics). There are a few more expensive mics that offer a battery power option, like the Rode M3 at £72, but I think that's more than the OP wanted to pay.

stevehertz · 28th Mar 2021, 9:17 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesperrett

I tried searching for similar mics to your Altais before posting my previous answer but it looks like affordable battery powered electret mics are hard to find. Everyone has switched to either plug-in power (for budget mics) or phantom power (for slightly more expensive mics). There are a few more expensive mics that offer a battery power option, like the Rode M3 at £72, but I think that's more than the OP wanted to pay.

Indeed. I mean, I bought them in the mid to late 70s, so that brand name is probably long gone. I do recall having seen them on eBay though.

Edit: the brand does still exist and new microphones are available, but perhaps not the electret ones. There is however an Altai electret mic on eBay.

Restoration73 · 28th Mar 2021, 10:32 am

I have a pair of ADM-20s that are a standard dynamic and typical for the era. More
important is the type of microphone for the application - omnidirectional will give an
extended coverage better for recording a group, however if you wish to optimise
a particular voice or sound a directional e.g. cardioid type is better. I have tested an
inexpensive AudioTechnica cardioid and found the heart shaped polar response was
very accurate considering the low price.

18th Mar 2021, 3:18 pm	#1
mrjubboo New Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: London, UK. Posts: 1	Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? Hi. We've just been getting a 4000DB reel to reel working and it's been going well. We'd like to make some amateur (very) recording of voices and gramophone to the reels and would like to know which microphones are recommended for this at a reasonable price ie about 60 quid or under for the pair. Thanks in advance.

18th Mar 2021, 7:18 pm	#2
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,864	Re: Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? I've used Japanese electret mikes (the type with an AA cell in the stem) with a 4000DS and had quite reasonable results. A pair of them in a crossed format for stereo. I've also used an STC moving coil studio job, but that was with a step-up transformer. David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

20th Mar 2021, 3:51 pm	#3
wireman Heptode Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK. Posts: 528	Re: Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? That is a very low budget for a new pair of microphones, I'm more familiar with those at 2-4x the price. This website has a selected of budget options... https://thehomerecordings.com/stereo-pair-microphones/ Would you be planning to hand-hold the microphones? Do you have cables (XLR to 1/4") should a microphone not come with one? I presume that the recorder could not use a phanton-power only microphone. I have a pair of battery-powered old Sennheiser microphones with 1/4" plugs but I don't see anything similar in their range today. Both Gear4Music and Thomann (the latter is not in the UK) are selling products in that price range and are specialist music retailers.

20th Mar 2021, 5:53 pm	#4
Hartley118 Nonode Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK. Posts: 2,198	Re: Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? I've had very pleasing results from the Tandy 'Realistic' one-piece stereo electret mike. I'm sure they're discontinued now, but for illustration here's a used example on eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Realistic...YaAuJJEALw_wcB A lot further up the quality and price scale are the current range of Rode mikes. Their 'Videomic' might just fall into your price range (intended to be mounted on a camera, but also usable independently). This is an excellent directional mike but is only mono. For a 'period piece' mike (again mono, but £60 might buy a pair), the Grampian DP4 dynamic mike from the 1960s has a good 'presence' effect on voice. For the 4000D, I think you'd need the medium impedance version. Pretty freely available on eBay, but make sure it comes complete with its unique connector. Martin __________________ BVWS Member

20th Mar 2021, 10:41 pm	#5
jamesperrett Octode Join Date: May 2007 Location: Liss, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 1,873	Re: Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? In the past I used to use mics like the Ross RE363 for this which is a battery powered cardioid condenser mic but I can't find a modern equivalent at a reasonable price. The Rode M3 would work but it is out of budget. If you don't mind making up a power supply (or buying one, they need phantom power between 9-52V) these Citronic mics look like they might work and are within budget. https://www.studiospares.com/microph...air-477800.htm

21st Mar 2021, 7:25 am	#6
dglcomp Heptode Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Portland, Dorset, UK. Posts: 874	Re: Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? At the cheapo end the Behringer XM1800S are quite acceptable, all metal bodied, plus you can get three in a plastic padded case for under £30.

21st Mar 2021, 10:33 am	#7
arjoll Dekatron Join Date: May 2006 Location: Invercargill, New Zealand Posts: 3,456	Re: Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? Akai did some electret condensers in the same era - dad had a pair with his 4000DB, and found they had a transformer and two core cable just terminated in a 1/4" TS jack so chopped that off and re-terminated with a male XLR. I can't recall the model but they are not only of the period but what Akai would have sold with the recorder. I can find out what they were, in case you want to save a search on eBay. I did see a pair on Trademe many years ago, but they don't exactly come up often!

21st Mar 2021, 10:56 pm	#8
Plus4db Triode Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Stourbridge, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 21	Re: Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? The mic pre amps on reel to reels of this era are often quite poor and unbalanced, with mid to high impedance, and only useful to about 10ft cable. So if using modern electret condensers or dynamic mics you will most likely be better using a modern pre amp with balanced XLR inputs to the line input, for quality. Having said that I recently bought a pair of period NOS recommended accessory dynamic mics, MC-106s, for my Teac, for curiosity more than anything since I have far better professional mics and preamps for my day job. Although a bit lacking in LF response and little poppy they were surprisingly good and have quite a period sound. They are 10,000ohm, which is uncommon these days. I wanted to use the mic inputs since no one seemed ever to bother with them and as I say I was curious.

23rd Mar 2021, 12:35 am	#9
majoconz Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ashhurst, Manawatu, New Zealand Posts: 570	Re: Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? I bought my GX4000DB new somewhere around 1980 - it came with headphones - Akai ASE-7's which I still use - very comfortable on-ear type but the stereo plug I replaced with a mono plug to use with an HF receiver - AND two microphones with little stands - ADM25's. I don't recall ever having used them. __________________ Cheers - Martin ZL2MC

27th Mar 2021, 8:28 am	#11
stevehertz Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 8,830	Re: Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? I used and still have a pair of Altai battery powered electret mics that are surprisingly good. I think it was one of those generic designs that was altered cosmetically and badged differently for a variety of companies. I would hazard a guess that they're still available in some form or brand. __________________ A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..

28th Mar 2021, 1:56 am	#12
jamesperrett Octode Join Date: May 2007 Location: Liss, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 1,873	Re: Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? I tried searching for similar mics to your Altais before posting my previous answer but it looks like affordable battery powered electret mics are hard to find. Everyone has switched to either plug-in power (for budget mics) or phantom power (for slightly more expensive mics). There are a few more expensive mics that offer a battery power option, like the Rode M3 at £72, but I think that's more than the OP wanted to pay.

28th Mar 2021, 10:32 am	#14
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: Which microphones to get for an Akai 4000DB? I have a pair of ADM-20s that are a standard dynamic and typical for the era. More important is the type of microphone for the application - omnidirectional will give an extended coverage better for recording a group, however if you wish to optimise a particular voice or sound a directional e.g. cardioid type is better. I have tested an inexpensive AudioTechnica cardioid and found the heart shaped polar response was very accurate considering the low price.