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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc. |
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21st Mar 2021, 12:45 pm | #21 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 1,046
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Re: Cassette tape quality
I tried to record a cassette last night, for the first time in over 20 years! I used a Fuji PS Metal. Flicking between source / monitor with a 3-head Sony, I noticed that the sound was good, but not indistinguishable from the source. I remember (with much younger ears) that when I did this with my Denon in 1991, onto SA chrome, my friends were unable to tell the difference...
All went well, until about the last 5 minutes of side A, and first 5 mins of side B, where the sound began to 'break up'. I've never seen this happen in my life... It was fluttering in and out on both channels - as if there were a loose connection on both channels. I immediately stopped the recording, and tried a TDK SA90 that I made on the Denon in 1998. It sounded perfectly clean - despite the fact that there is no reason why azimuth should be consistent between both machines. So, either the Sony has an intermittent record problem, or - more likely - the Fuji PS (a late edition, with no screws in the shell) has deteriorated over time. I shall try to buy a NOS TDK, repeat the recording and see if I get the same issue. |
21st Mar 2021, 1:04 pm | #22 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,484
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Re: Cassette tape quality
Quote:
If this happens at the start of a side when torque is highest at take up, I would suggest the pinch roller has gone hard and skews the tape. Either way, a look at the tape surface should give you an idea.
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21st Mar 2021, 1:14 pm | #23 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
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Re: Cassette tape quality
Metal tape was notoriously unstable.
You can hear degradation with all cassette recordings if you know what to listen for using good equipment, even with a very good deck perfectly optimised for a very good tape. There is a sort of 'crushing' effect which loses aural complexity, rather like high bitrate MP3 encoding. Nevertheless, it's astounding that a basic design which was little more than a dictation machine format was pushed until it delivered such high quality. |
21st Mar 2021, 1:27 pm | #24 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 1,046
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Re: Cassette tape quality
Thanks.
I just checked the tape and, lo and behold, the aforementioned last section of side 1 / start side 2, shows little dents on both sides of the tape. I'm not sure how a mechanism could do this, so am currently of the opinion that it's a defect in the tape. |
21st Mar 2021, 1:32 pm | #25 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
Posts: 7,484
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Re: Cassette tape quality
Quote:
Early ones (actually made by memorex) had sealed shells, and used a sponge foam pressure pad, which tended to disintegrate so poor tape head contact resulted in muddy sound. The tape itself, at least the oldest L-shape boxed ones, was okay once this was attended to. But a lot from this era (HBS, and the grey ones) were very poor.
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Regards, Ben. |
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21st Mar 2021, 1:34 pm | #26 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK
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Re: Cassette tape quality
Then they started outsourcing, at least the shells and possibly the tape too.
The mid-80S 'dbs' were reasonable budget ferrics, I used to buy five c60s for two quid at the local Rumbelows. The shells were decent by that time and never jammed. They also did a Chrome (CrxII) using that shell that was pretty decent budget tape. The coloured dbs/+ ones were SKC (and later Saehan). Scotch, Philips and Fuji all used those shells. Again, good results were obtained. By the 90s they were also sourcing from Fuji ('db series') and even BASF. There are some more worth looking out for.
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21st Mar 2021, 1:37 pm | #27 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Re: Cassette tape quality
Quote:
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Regards, Ben. |
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23rd Mar 2021, 1:39 am | #28 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 1,046
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Re: Cassette tape quality
Since my last post, I gave the tape a proper listen tonight. The crinkling is worse towards the end of side 1, but it is there throughout the tape. I opened a second tape (I got a batch of 10) and it is also crinkled (I stopped it at a random place a few minutes in). The tape was NOS, still in cellophane...
I've never had a bad Japanese tape in my life... If I've got the issue on 2 of the batch, what's the odds that it's present on the rest? I've messaged the guy on Ebay... He has good feedback for these tapes... I'm convinced this is a bad batch. Either the Ebay buyers got better tapes and I've got bad ones, or they don't care He's sold hundreds of them. They are late Fuji tapes, with no screws and 'CD' emblazened on the wrapper. Methinks that they were never the kind of tapes one saw in the heyday of the 80s and early 90s. |
23rd Mar 2021, 11:37 am | #29 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
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Re: Cassette tape quality
No discussion of eBay sales please.
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23rd Mar 2021, 1:10 pm | #30 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 1,046
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Re: Cassette tape quality
Sorry - I would edit the message, but am unable to (feel free to if you don't mind - I'm aware of the E*** rule, but thought it was for direct links - not general chatter).
I think that the issues at stake are the same, wherever you source the tape from. If the cassette was sealed, then is the issue down to a bad batch, or is it down to degradation over time? Methinks it's the former. Which raises the question of whether the seller knows about the issue, i.e. has a batch of factory rejects - or whether it was sold unwittingly. My interest in cassette circa 2021 isn't to make new recordings (it's to retrieve old ones) - this was something I was doing for fun (I wanted to see if my partner could spot the difference between preview / play). But if you are serious about making recordings at this time, your options are seriously limited (unless you want to spend more than what a new 1/4" reel tape will cost on a cassette...and you will take the same risk!). I think anyone interested in dabbling with making new cassettes ought to exercise caution when buying NOS stock! |
23rd Mar 2021, 2:15 pm | #31 |
Octode
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 1,906
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Re: Cassette tape quality
I agree.
I have some sealed ones bought locally over recent years from the market and charity shops. I won't know what they are like until I open them. When I moved house and get sorted I intend to look at what tapes I have and consider buying some used. Perhaps then I can get some better quality ones at a more affordable price. I did spot, and think I posted here a while back, that new tape is being made in the US. As in the tape itself is being made. Just Type 1 and you have to buy a box of 100... but they ARE being made, which I think is a good thing. A cobalt Type 2 is also supposed to be on the way too...
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23rd Mar 2021, 2:38 pm | #32 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
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Re: Cassette tape quality
I remember the 'squealing' cassettes issue from the 80s; it could sometimes be triggered by storage at extremes of temperature [don't leave your cassettes on top of the car dashboard on a hot summer's day!]
As to 'new old stock' tapes, if they're faulty I guess it would be a bit cheeky trying to claim against a manufacturer's 'lifetime guarantee' something like 40 years after the tape was made. |
30th Mar 2021, 9:53 am | #33 |
Octode
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 1,906
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Re: Cassette tape quality
I've just taken delivery of a NOS Memorex dbs 60. Made in Korea so I presume it is one of the ones @Ben mentions above. Unless it's behind the barcode it doesn't seem to include the "It is live" logo.
I have no machine to record on it with yet, but that's a minor detail! I find when on ebay Memorex tapes seem to attract little interest, even sealed ones. That seems a bit odd to me as of all the cassette brands, Memorex is one of the more memorable ones I'd have said (and the current interest in cassette seems to be more retro-cool focused than technical).
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1st Apr 2021, 1:18 pm | #34 |
Triode
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Knaresborough, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 43
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Re: Cassette tape quality
In the 1990's I bought quite a lot of That's MR-XPRO cassettes. They were highly regarded by some hifi magazines at the time, and I was very impressed. I still have them, although unused for a few years.
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