1980s Quantel Paintboxes

[julie_m]

Back in the Days, that sort of behaviour might have sounded even more like holding people to ransom than it does today (well, it is holding someone to ransom; just that it's become a standard business practice). I think there would have been a good chance of it being ruled illegal, and setting a precedent ..... if it had been reported to the authorities at the time, and they had known how to proceed. (Entering someone else's password had already been decided not to constitute forgery.)

[red16v]

I'm afraid I don't understand your post at all? The Quantel error was just that - an error. We held Quantel up to be a very competent and ethical company - we dealt with them often and had a very good professional and personal relationship with the support staff. Same with the Grass valley group who operated in a similar manner.

If you buy a bit of kit it will come with certain options and facilities, if you subsequently want to have more facilities then you might reasonably be expected to pay for them. That seems a well understood policy - think of modern day car purchases for example.

Perhaps I have mis-understood your post.

[dexterslab]

yea sounds like the tech just goofed up rather than being malicious

A company can have any licensing model they wish, if the end user agrees to the license terms.

what is the LNN abbreviation shortened from btw?

[red16v]

London News Network, a joint venture operating company 50/50 percent owned by Carlton Television and LWT. It provided the on-air news provision for these two companies and transmission facilities for those two companies and additionally GMTV.

[dexterslab]

Originally Posted by evingar

A lot of Quantel machines were shipped with hardware capabilities that were only enabled by password. The same basic card set was used for “V” series Paintbox and Picturebox – that gives an indication how software configurable the architecture was.

The video path through the "V" series machines is luma, multiplexed chroma (digital r-y, b-y) and key. The mainstore is arranged accordingly. (Mirage was an RGB machine). The disk store had a variety of uses, including working in association with the image manipulation card (sizing, filtering, rotating , creating thumbnails etc)

The boards have fixed locations. Interchanging positions will stop the machine working.

Several card types could be put into the "image manipulation" slot. The most basic being the Rotate Proc - that has 2D image manipulation capability. Next up was the Perspective Proc that enabled 3D effects. Later machines had a CAP card. This gave enhanced features and had a Transputer as its "brain".

The CPU could be CPU2, CPU3 (which I suspect yours is) CPU40, CPU42,CPU43. The first 2 used 68000 processors, the last 3 used 68040. Machines could be upgraded with a newer cut of software and new CPU. CPU43 cards used SM sockets, that could give problems – ditto some of the later output cards.

Generally, you can “hot plug” the cards without problem, although it was not recommended. The only exception was the CAP card, that would occasionally pop a buffer IC.

That's good to know, all my cards are in the right places!

my unit seems to date from around the late 1980s and has a perspective board in the option slot, there is no networking card installed in mine. CPU card appears to be CPU3 as you suspected.

interesting to know that the basic cards were the same throughout the machines, i had wondered this. I found a badly listed unspecified quantel v-series chassis listed on ebay, i didn't buy it because i had no idea what i might be getting. but it sounds like it probably would have had cards that would fit mine.

Interesting you mention the transputer on the CAP board, did quantel have a relationship with Inmos? because i was very surprised to find an inmos transputer running the floppy disk controller and not some off the shelf western digital device.

I've attached a load of pics below, i thought some might be interested to see and bring back some memories!

[dexterslab]

some more pics...

[dexterslab]

and the last few

[evingar]

Yours is certainly an early model. The parallel digits in /out and the BAL analogue output module are testament to that.

Those blue "Menvier Modules" are a pig to rework. The ceramic board soaks away the soldering iron heat.

Looking on the bright side though, at least you haven't got any of those serial 601 Sony modules to go wrong - although I think you will struggle to find other studio kit that gives out / receives parallel digits


As far as I know, there was no formal relationship between Quantel and Inmos. The processors were never used in a parallel fashion, but to facilitate local hardware that was slaved to the CPU. The Henry / Edibox used them in the Address card, the audio system control box and in the Dylan disk drives.

[TonyDuell]

As an aside there was a transputer device designed for use as a disk controller. I think it was the M212. Basically a T2 transputer (16 bit) with some extra hardware on-chip (shift registers, etc) to handle the bitstream from a floppy drive or ST412-type hard disk. I should have a data sheet on it somewhere. Is that what is used here?

[dexterslab]

Originally Posted by evingar

Yours is certainly an early model. The parallel digits in /out and the BAL analogue output module are testament to that.

the CPU board is newer, most of the ICs have 1993 datecodes, the video in/out boards seem to be dated 1988 ish and the store & persp boards are late 1989

Looking on the bright side though, at least you haven't got any of those serial 601 Sony modules to go wrong - although I think you will struggle to find other studio kit that gives out / receives parallel digits

sorry you've lost me there! parallel digits??

As an aside there was a transputer device designed for use as a disk controller. I think it was the M212. Basically a T2 transputer (16 bit) with some extra hardware on-chip (shift registers, etc) to handle the bitstream from a floppy drive or ST412-type hard disk. I should have a data sheet on it somewhere. Is that what is used here?

it is yes M212B, picture attached. I have the datasheet already, thanks anyway though

[evingar]

Originally Posted by dexterslab

sorry you've lost me there! parallel digits??

Your machine has capability of digital video input and output. It has a variety of names but was colloquially called "601" in the industry. Early implementations were often via a parallel bus (i.e your machine). Later it was invariably in serial form, via coaxial cable. It's a lot easier to wire up a studio with coax than multi way cable and it's easier to get long cable lengths because you don't get "bit race" / skew.

REF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITU-R_BT.656

ITU-R Recommendation BT.656, sometimes also called ITU656, describes a simple digital video protocol for streaming uncompressed PAL or NTSC Standard Definition TV (525 or 625 lines) signals. The protocol builds upon the 4:2:2 digital video encoding parameters defined in ITU-R Recommendation BT.601, which provides interlaced video data, streaming each field separately, and uses the YCbCr color space and a 13.5 MHz sampling frequency for pixels.
The standard can be implemented to transmit either 8-bit values (the standard in consumer electronics) or 10-bit values (sometimes used in studio environments). Both a parallel and a serial transmission format are defined. For the parallel format, a 25-pin Sub-D connector pinout and ECL logic levels are defined. The serial format can be transmitted over 75-ohm coaxial cable with BNC connectors, but there is also a fibre-optical version defined.

[evingar]

Originally Posted by dexterslab

the CPU board is newer, most of the ICs have 1993 datecodes, the video in/out boards seem to be dated 1988 ish and the store & persp boards are late 1989

Have to be a tad careful. Quantel operated a board repair and exchange facility. It would be perfectly possible to have an older replacement board fitted than the original one swapped out.

However, from what you say, your machine would seem to date from the late 80s or very early 90s. It's purely speculation, but if the machine had a CPU 2 fitted originally, then an upgrade and fitment of a new CPU3 may account for the more recent date codes on that card.

[dexterslab]

Originally Posted by evingar

Your machine has capability of digital video input and output. It has a variety of names was colloquially called "601" in the industry. Early implementations were often via a parallel bus (i.e your machine). Later it was invariably in serial form, via coaxial cable. It'sa lot easier to wire up a stuido with coax than multi way cable and it's easier to get long cable lengths because you don't get "bit race" / skew.

ah ok, yea i know about the 601 i/o, i just didn't understand the 'parallel digits' term

i am potentially working with someone who could make a ccir601 to hdmi converter, my paintbox used to belong to that same person... he had already been looking into it, or even replacing the DAC on the video output board with a hdmi output using a fpga

he's been developing it for retro video games consoles

[julie_m]

Originally Posted by red16v

If you buy a bit of kit it will come with certain options and facilities, if you subsequently want to have more facilities then you might reasonably be expected to pay for them. That seems a well understood policy - think of modern day car purchases for example.

Perhaps I have mis-understood your post.

I'm talking about when you've already paid for the hardware, it's just been deliberately broken in software. But to avoid taking this off-topic, I have started a thread on my own blog for any further discussion.

[evingar]

Originally Posted by red16v

If you buy a bit of kit it will come with certain options and facilities, if you subsequently want to have more facilities then you might reasonably be expected to pay for them. That seems a well understood policy

I would agree. Over time, the cost of developing software for complex equipment rapidly outstripped the cost of developing the hardware. The Quantel R&D department reflected this. The number of people involved with software development, verification and bug-fixing / maintenance expanded and ended up dwarfing those engaged in hardware development.

For illustration, the software content of the basic 5001SP effects machine (that I was involved with on its release from R&D in the early/ mid 80s) was contained in a small ROM. By the time the company was developing the Paintbox "V", the software component of the products were substantial. As has been mentioned, the hardware was shared between 2 products (Paintbox and Picturebox). Additionally, the hardware developed for the "V" was also used as the Paintbox element of the HAL and Editbox machines.

In such circumstances, it really isn't unreasonable to expect the company to recoup the software development costs by asking for the equipment purchase price to reflect functionality rather than for payment simply reflecting the cost and the development costs of the hardware.

[dexterslab]

i would have thought it could be a very cost effective and flexible way for production companies/studios to add extra resources only when needed. Quite forward thinking for the time, it's quite prevalent to do this kind of thing today.

I used it in something i designed and sold some time ago, a datalogger where the hardware was identical between standard and pro versions

evingar, of all these bits of hardware that have been mentioned could you do a quick run through what each one was typically designed for (ignoring the earlier stuff like the DPB, Mirage etc)?

So we have
Picturebox
Editbox
Paintbox
Harriet
HAL
Ramcorder
others?

I picked up a lot of info from this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0aSj6PqAKA

I also have a load of Quantel HAL training videos, but i've not picked up a VHS machine yet to see them

[evingar]

Picturebox - Digital Still Store
Harriet - video manipulation, incorporating Ramcorder as the storage, also incorporating V series Paintbox functionality.
HAL Video editor – incorporating V series Paintbox functionality – Fujitsu then Dylan based disk storage
Henry – Non Linear Editor – Dylan based storage – incorporating Paintbox functionality
Editbox – On line editor - used as editing “seats” on server installations, incorporating Paintbox functionally.

Domino – Film to digital – Digital to film editing system – incorporating HD editing capability, multiple Dylan units storage.

[red16v]

Can I add Power clip box and the Studio clip box? Large video storage systems designed to be used with 'Edits seats' which were remote editing stations connected to the above systems.

We bought a pair of studio clip boxes when itv got the rights to the FA premiership. Quantels user software was not very good for our applications and we bought custom built interface panels from a third party supplier to make the Quantel kit do as we needed.

[dexterslab]

I am probably getting ahead of myself now, but can anyone who worked with the quantel stuff recall what the license keys looked like that enabled the features on the v-series hardware?

things like:

what did quantel actually call it in the software, ie was it a key, activation code, serial number etc?

number of characters?

was it numeric or alpha numeric?

particular format like X number of letters and X number of digits?

was it tied to the system serial number?

was there one key that unlocked various features or did each feature have it's own key?

[red16v]

I'm sure Evingar will be along soon with the definitive answer, in the meantime from my memory as I recall the software licence keys were 5 blocks of 5 characters - largely alphas with a few numerals within it. You needed a separate licence key for each additional facility you wanted to 'unlock' - although of course a 'facility' may include quite a few additional features. The keys were locked to a particular device (it's internal serial number?) and you certainly couldn't put a key given to you to enter into one machine into a different machine. They weren't daft!

Edit to add, and if you worked in Technical Support at the end user, you kept a very careful list of what codes were being used in each machine to avoid calamity.