Need help with Philips N1702 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Sugarraylingam · 20th Oct 2016, 11:47 pm

Hi guys, I'm a novice in repairing VCRs but I'm a lover of retro technology.

The recently purchased a Philips N1702 for £150, on the understanding that it was working. Unfortunately I was ripped off. The machine wasn't lacing the tape. After searching several YouTube videos I decided to buy a belt kit for the n1702, from Hungary,

I started working on the machine today and badly struggled to change the belts underneath. Took me 3 hours just to change 3 of them. I gave up with the counter belt as this was a complete nightmare.

Got the player working and put few tapes in and the picture was very shaky, with Black and White streaks. I tried tracking and that didn't work. I cleaned the heads with surgical spirits and cleaned everything inside. Still had the same problem.

Since then the player chewed up 4 tapes and started to struggle with rewind and forward. I checked the belts again and they seemed ok.

The problem now is I can't get the loading tray to close so that I can test a tape.

I've spent all day trying to fix this and I now feel extremely depressed.

Please view my YouTube videos

https://youtu.be/0Lj9e6_rmzM

https://youtu.be/tE4JZe4rPOo

https://youtu.be/tonAdtb2wY0

Any help would be much appreciated.

Vauxfan2k · 21st Oct 2016, 10:16 am

If you paid by a popular internet pay site I'd claim your money back. That price is top dollar even for a fully working clean one.

If you want to persist in repairing it, then get some rubber rejuvenator and clean up the pinch roller and idler/s.

The belts alone only do part of the job.

Get some fairy liquid on a cloth and clean the reels of all the deposits aswell, this helps the idler grip them. I suggest removing the reels to do so as you don't want anything else getting wet.

Cheers

cheerfulcharlie · 21st Oct 2016, 12:51 pm

I would take a punt that your original problem was the tapes not the machine.

The tapes are very old now and the rather eccentric cartridge system does not help.

Before placing in any machine, the brake on the cartridge should be released with a screwdriver (bottom left of the cartridge) and the protection flap covering the tape lifted and the tape pulled out and spooled back in to see if it moves freely. Several attempts may free up a mechanism that has a bit of rigor mortus.

Sugarraylingam · 25th Oct 2016, 5:13 pm

Hi guys, thank you for responding back to me. Unfortunately I'm not very technical about taking off reels and don't know what a rubber rejuvenator is.

I cleaned the reels using surgical spirit. Also cleaned the head using a plain paper with surgical spirit.

I bought another N1702 for spares and this machine was spotless. I changed the belts but the tape stops after a minute. I tried another tape and still have the same problem. Also, I can't get any signal to the TV via RF lead and have no idea why.

Really struggling to resolve the problem.

Just added a new video on YouTube showing the poor picture I'm getting.

https://youtu.be/54PBgLDHHf8

Vauxfan2k · 25th Oct 2016, 7:14 pm

Pic attached of the rubber rejuvinator I use.

Your video suggests a problem with the tuning of the RF signal, is there a small screw on the back of the VCR to change the RF frequency? I'd give that a twiddle in case the contacts are dirty. Dirty heads would usually give lots of snow and or crackling sound to match.

Seriously though I'd be claiming a darn good chunk of the price back if you intend to keep it.

I see you still have the Ferguson 3v23, I've yet to get my JVC version of that going.

Cheers

Steve

paulsherwin · 25th Oct 2016, 8:20 pm

These are not easy machines to repair and maintain. You would be better off learning the ropes on a 90s VHS machine before trying to tackle one.

cheerfulcharlie · 26th Oct 2016, 9:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugarraylingam

Just added a new video on YouTube showing the poor picture I'm getting.

https://youtu.be/54PBgLDHHf8

If the sound is coming from the VCR on the YT clip, it sounds quite stable indicating that the tape passing the control head is ok.
The monitor picture on the YT shows nothing coming from the video heads and I don't think surgical spirit was the right thing to clean them with, as I believe it has oil and 'numbing' compounds in it rather than pure alcohol ?
Those heads have to be treated with respect and they will last a long time.

I still think your original problem was with the tapes which maybe needed freeing up and especially if they were Scotch tapes they were probably shedding a bit of oxide.

Edward Huggins · 26th Oct 2016, 1:02 pm

These are very early VCR machines and extremely punishing to service now. If you are not "very technical" this is the last machine on earth I would buy to try and repair. Did you buy it just because of its period technology or did you have a specific use for it? Difficult to tell from the video clip of the poor picture, but this might be tracking rather than a RF problem.

Unless you can get a demonstration, beware anything that is for sale that says "just serviced" or "recently fully restored". This can mean it just lights up when switched on!

Edward

Sugarraylingam · 27th Oct 2016, 7:07 pm

Hi guys, thank you for all your replies. I'm guessing I may have cocked up the heads by using surgical spirit. Originally bought this so that I have all the formats. I like old TV programmes and having an N1700 would likely have tapes that contained things from the 70s and early 80s. I don't watch TV, except for the chase.

I can't get back anything as I've tampered with the player.

Does anyone repair N1702s ?

Would I be better off buying a head cleaner for this player, or just give up? I've tried a few people to try and repair this but no one wants to touch it at all. I tried the tracking on the player and got nothing.

I have no idea how to fix a VCR, only know how to change belts. I've always been into old Ferguson Videostar when I was young. I'm 35 now and have all the Ferguson from 00 to 31. I don't have friends so I thought I could take up repairing videos as a hobby. Obviously this was another comedy of errors. I noticed some white stuff after playing a tape. I cleaned the machine when I saw that.

Lodgesound · 28th Oct 2016, 3:13 am

Hi there - that looks to me like you have a massive head clog or a broken video head.

As has already been said these machines are a nightmare - they were when they were new and now the tapes are so deteriorated and very often sticky shed so getting them to play is extremely difficult.

You need to check the RF coming from the head itself - you need a manual and a scope to do this. Also from one of your earlier vids it strikes me that the head drum is running to a stop far too quickly - maybe the belt is far too tight or the head drum bearing shaft needs lubricating.

Cosmetically on the inside it looks to be very clean - I have seen many of these machines and most look far worse than this one and a lot more deteriorated.

cheerfulcharlie · 28th Oct 2016, 9:42 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugarraylingam

Hi guys, thank you for all your replies. I'm guessing I may have cocked up the heads by using surgical spirit.

You need a pure alcohol- such as Isopropanol alcohol- this is marketed as electrical 'switch cleaner' in places like Maplins and Halfords.

If you have little experience of cleaning video heads then it's probably best you do not touch them, but instead blast them all around with the tube from an aerosol spray of Isopropanol alcohol...then leave for a minute or so, run a tape back and forth in FFWD and RWD This may save the day?

The white powder is probably tape mould..at the BBC thought people were hiding drugs in tape cans until they found out what it was LOL.

Freya · 28th Oct 2016, 10:14 am

Switch cleaner and isopropanol are very different products, use IPA on heads not switch cleaner.

cheerfulcharlie · 28th Oct 2016, 1:39 pm

Your right of course and a slip of the definition.

Halfords electrical 'contact' cleaner is isopropanol I would say.

Maplins supply Servisol Isopropanol aerosols but would suspect its
'contact' cleaner is the same.

Sugarraylingam · 5th Dec 2016, 11:23 pm

Hi guys, sorry I haven't been online much.

There has been some developments today and I've managed to fix two of the machines but playback is not good.

N1700 - Clear colour picture but has interruptions every second with the White Horizontal lines in the middle. I gave the machine a super clean inside and noticed that the audio heads had some corrosion. This is explains why the sound quality is very poor. Because I Struggled to change the counter belt, the rewind button forwards the tape and the forward button rewinds.

N1702 - Everything works but playback is Black & White. Don't know how to resolve this issue.

Please view my YouTube video of my n1700

https://youtu.be/1uMFXNFFSuw

I cleaned this machine with a product called Servisol (Isopropyl Alcohol).

I gave my machines to be looked at by an video engineer. Unfortunately he didn't want to look at the machine and kept it in the workshop for 6 weeks. He didn't even look at it. I collected the machines this morning and started working on them from 1430.

Sugarraylingam · 6th Dec 2016, 1:53 am

Would the n1702 circuit board work on a n1700? Are they easy to swap?

Sugarraylingam · 8th Dec 2016, 6:19 pm

I was hoping for a response but I've received nothing so I guess I'll have to call it a day. I was hoping whether someone could repair the player but I'll just sell them for spares.

Although I'm quitting this forum, I would like to thank everyone who had participated in my thread.

Merry Christmas everyone ��

20th Oct 2016, 11:47 pm	#1
Sugarraylingam Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Ilford, Essex, UK. Posts: 7	Need help with Philips N1702 Hi guys, I'm a novice in repairing VCRs but I'm a lover of retro technology. The recently purchased a Philips N1702 for £150, on the understanding that it was working. Unfortunately I was ripped off. The machine wasn't lacing the tape. After searching several YouTube videos I decided to buy a belt kit for the n1702, from Hungary, I started working on the machine today and badly struggled to change the belts underneath. Took me 3 hours just to change 3 of them. I gave up with the counter belt as this was a complete nightmare. Got the player working and put few tapes in and the picture was very shaky, with Black and White streaks. I tried tracking and that didn't work. I cleaned the heads with surgical spirits and cleaned everything inside. Still had the same problem. Since then the player chewed up 4 tapes and started to struggle with rewind and forward. I checked the belts again and they seemed ok. The problem now is I can't get the loading tray to close so that I can test a tape. I've spent all day trying to fix this and I now feel extremely depressed. Please view my YouTube videos https://youtu.be/0Lj9e6_rmzM https://youtu.be/tE4JZe4rPOo https://youtu.be/tonAdtb2wY0 Any help would be much appreciated.

21st Oct 2016, 10:16 am	#2
Vauxfan2k Hexode Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Inverness, Highland, UK. Posts: 300	Re: Need help with Philips N1702 If you paid by a popular internet pay site I'd claim your money back. That price is top dollar even for a fully working clean one. If you want to persist in repairing it, then get some rubber rejuvenator and clean up the pinch roller and idler/s. The belts alone only do part of the job. Get some fairy liquid on a cloth and clean the reels of all the deposits aswell, this helps the idler grip them. I suggest removing the reels to do so as you don't want anything else getting wet. Cheers

21st Oct 2016, 12:51 pm	#3
cheerfulcharlie Heptode Join Date: May 2009 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 708	Re: Need help with Philips N1702 I would take a punt that your original problem was the tapes not the machine. The tapes are very old now and the rather eccentric cartridge system does not help. Before placing in any machine, the brake on the cartridge should be released with a screwdriver (bottom left of the cartridge) and the protection flap covering the tape lifted and the tape pulled out and spooled back in to see if it moves freely. Several attempts may free up a mechanism that has a bit of rigor mortus.

25th Oct 2016, 7:14 pm	#5
Vauxfan2k Hexode Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Inverness, Highland, UK. Posts: 300	Re: Need help with Philips N1702 Pic attached of the rubber rejuvinator I use. Your video suggests a problem with the tuning of the RF signal, is there a small screw on the back of the VCR to change the RF frequency? I'd give that a twiddle in case the contacts are dirty. Dirty heads would usually give lots of snow and or crackling sound to match. Seriously though I'd be claiming a darn good chunk of the price back if you intend to keep it. I see you still have the Ferguson 3v23, I've yet to get my JVC version of that going. Cheers Steve Attached Thumbnails

25th Oct 2016, 8:20 pm	#6
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,970	Re: Need help with Philips N1702 These are not easy machines to repair and maintain. You would be better off learning the ropes on a 90s VHS machine before trying to tackle one.

25th Oct 2016, 5:13 pm	#4
Sugarraylingam Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Ilford, Essex, UK. Posts: 7	Hi guys, thank you for responding back to me. Unfortunately I'm not very technical about taking off reels and don't know what a rubber rejuvenator is. I cleaned the reels using surgical spirit. Also cleaned the head using a plain paper with surgical spirit. I bought another N1702 for spares and this machine was spotless. I changed the belts but the tape stops after a minute. I tried another tape and still have the same problem. Also, I can't get any signal to the TV via RF lead and have no idea why. Really struggling to resolve the problem. Just added a new video on YouTube showing the poor picture I'm getting. https://youtu.be/54PBgLDHHf8

26th Oct 2016, 1:02 pm	#8
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,339	Re: Need help with Philips N1702 These are very early VCR machines and extremely punishing to service now. If you are not "very technical" this is the last machine on earth I would buy to try and repair. Did you buy it just because of its period technology or did you have a specific use for it? Difficult to tell from the video clip of the poor picture, but this might be tracking rather than a RF problem. Unless you can get a demonstration, beware anything that is for sale that says "just serviced" or "recently fully restored". This can mean it just lights up when switched on! Edward

27th Oct 2016, 7:07 pm	#9
Sugarraylingam Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Ilford, Essex, UK. Posts: 7	Re: Need help with Philips N1702 Hi guys, thank you for all your replies. I'm guessing I may have cocked up the heads by using surgical spirit. Originally bought this so that I have all the formats. I like old TV programmes and having an N1700 would likely have tapes that contained things from the 70s and early 80s. I don't watch TV, except for the chase. I can't get back anything as I've tampered with the player. Does anyone repair N1702s ? Would I be better off buying a head cleaner for this player, or just give up? I've tried a few people to try and repair this but no one wants to touch it at all. I tried the tracking on the player and got nothing. I have no idea how to fix a VCR, only know how to change belts. I've always been into old Ferguson Videostar when I was young. I'm 35 now and have all the Ferguson from 00 to 31. I don't have friends so I thought I could take up repairing videos as a hobby. Obviously this was another comedy of errors. I noticed some white stuff after playing a tape. I cleaned the machine when I saw that.

28th Oct 2016, 3:13 am	#10
Lodgesound Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Surrey, UK. Posts: 66	Re: Need help with Philips N1702 Hi there - that looks to me like you have a massive head clog or a broken video head. As has already been said these machines are a nightmare - they were when they were new and now the tapes are so deteriorated and very often sticky shed so getting them to play is extremely difficult. You need to check the RF coming from the head itself - you need a manual and a scope to do this. Also from one of your earlier vids it strikes me that the head drum is running to a stop far too quickly - maybe the belt is far too tight or the head drum bearing shaft needs lubricating. Cosmetically on the inside it looks to be very clean - I have seen many of these machines and most look far worse than this one and a lot more deteriorated.

28th Oct 2016, 10:14 am	#12
Freya Octode Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, UK. Posts: 1,991	Re: Need help with Philips N1702 Switch cleaner and isopropanol are very different products, use IPA on heads not switch cleaner. __________________ Stephen _________"It`s only an old telly" ___

28th Oct 2016, 1:39 pm	#13
cheerfulcharlie Heptode Join Date: May 2009 Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 708	Re: Need help with Philips N1702 Your right of course and a slip of the definition. Halfords electrical 'contact' cleaner is isopropanol I would say. Maplins supply Servisol Isopropanol aerosols but would suspect its 'contact' cleaner is the same.

5th Dec 2016, 11:23 pm	#14
Sugarraylingam Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Ilford, Essex, UK. Posts: 7	Hi guys, sorry I haven't been online much. There has been some developments today and I've managed to fix two of the machines but playback is not good. N1700 - Clear colour picture but has interruptions every second with the White Horizontal lines in the middle. I gave the machine a super clean inside and noticed that the audio heads had some corrosion. This is explains why the sound quality is very poor. Because I Struggled to change the counter belt, the rewind button forwards the tape and the forward button rewinds. N1702 - Everything works but playback is Black & White. Don't know how to resolve this issue. Please view my YouTube video of my n1700 https://youtu.be/1uMFXNFFSuw I cleaned this machine with a product called Servisol (Isopropyl Alcohol). I gave my machines to be looked at by an video engineer. Unfortunately he didn't want to look at the machine and kept it in the workshop for 6 weeks. He didn't even look at it. I collected the machines this morning and started working on them from 1430.

6th Dec 2016, 1:53 am	#15
Sugarraylingam Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Ilford, Essex, UK. Posts: 7	Re: Need help with Philips N1702 Would the n1702 circuit board work on a n1700? Are they easy to swap?

8th Dec 2016, 6:19 pm	#16
Sugarraylingam Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Ilford, Essex, UK. Posts: 7	Re: Need help with Philips N1702 I was hoping for a response but I've received nothing so I guess I'll have to call it a day. I was hoping whether someone could repair the player but I'll just sell them for spares. Although I'm quitting this forum, I would like to thank everyone who had participated in my thread. Merry Christmas everyone ��