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Old 20th Feb 2018, 12:34 am   #41
Boater Sam
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Default Re: The oddest valve? KLL32

I thought that the Mexican bus radio would cause some thought, its the strangest valve line up, massively complicated it would seem.
I was considering whether there was a PA function as well or a mid-tuning noise suppression circuit. Can't find a diagram.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 1:48 am   #42
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Default Re: The oddest valve? KLL32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boater Sam View Post
Here is another common continental valve that doesn't grace our UK shores.

PM84 Indicator, 300mA series heater chain version of EM84.
How come the continental TVs have indicators and not ours?
I am not sure that tuning indicators were that common on European TV receivers. But I have the impression that the European setmakers were less occupied with corner-cutting than their British counterparts, and did offer some models that had various circuit refinements.

The TV tuning indicator did involve some complexity, in that the magic eye could not be fed direct from say the vision AGC line. Typically, a sidechain vision IF stage was required, with a relatively narrow bandwidth centred on the vision IF. But the tuning of this stage was not quite straightforward, as the tuning needed to adjusted to offset the effect of the Nyquist slope so that the peak was at the vision carrier and not displaced from it, and also was reasonably symmetrical about it. Then a rectifier was required to provide a negative DC bias to the magic eye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
The PM84 was used as the FM radio tuning eye in the Ultra VR17-64 TV receiver.DFWB.
I guess a corollary question is why not also use it on TV by taking a feed from the sound IF AGC line. In turn the answer to that is probably that the sound IF channel was too broad to provide a meaningful peak indication. AM TV sound IF channels had to be quite broad in any case in order to ensure proper functioning of the noise limiters, and often they were wider than that required to allow for oscillator drift. Even with FM receivers, the IF bandwidth was really too broad to provide a useful peak reading tuning indication, and one “fix”, as recommended by Mullard, was to put a small peak in the IF curve. But this approach was also deprecated by those interested in high quality, who usually advocated the use of some form of null-reading indicator. GE developed the 6AL7GT magic eye for this purpose just after WWII, but it seemed to be rarely used in the UK. The RCA UK New Orthophonic FM tuner is the only example that comes to mind. So maybe the 6AL7GT qualifies as an odd valve in a UK context. The 6AL7GT also had some use as a TV tuning indicator in the USA, driven from the FM discriminator output of split-sound receivers.


Cheers,
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Old 3rd Mar 2018, 7:31 am   #43
Boater Sam
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Default Re: The oddest valve? KLL32

I have a tuning eye on a Loctal base, no number visible. Any ideas what it is and which sets it was used in?
I would assume, probably wrongly, that it would be American sets.
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Old 3rd Mar 2018, 9:26 am   #44
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Default Re: The oddest valve? KLL32

Probably an EM71. European I suspect. J.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 2:10 am   #45
Boater Sam
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Default Re: The oddest valve? KLL32

The Radiomuseum lists EM71 and EM71A with 307 sets and 48 sets using respectively.
There is one set listed, Schaub Supraphon that has one of each!

There is also a 12v heater version the HM71 but I cannot find any set that used it.

As these are mostly German sets I am surprised, I was unaware of so many Loctal valves being used in continental sets.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 9:45 am   #46
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Default Re: The oddest valve? KLL32

It does seem out of kilter, I think of the loctal base as a (just) pre-war US Sylvania development, though the very similar principle B9D was famously a Philips thing. The main advantage of a loctal magic eye would be that it would be short, fitting in with the post-war trend for sets to be more compact, possibly the EM71 represented an evolution of the separate-base EM11 in this respect with a base for which tooling and sockets already existed.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 10:51 am   #47
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Default Re: The oddest valve? KLL32

D'oh! B9G, not B9D.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 1:23 pm   #48
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Default Re: The oddest valve? KLL32

The EL34 power pentode is a rebased development of the EL60 which was electrically identical except it has an EF50 type B9G base.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el60.html
An early version of the EL34 was a strange looking valve:
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_el34.html

DFWB.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 4:19 pm   #49
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Default Re: The oddest valve? KLL32

There was also a UM 71 as well as the HM 71 as per the link below.

Regards
Trevor www.magiceyetubes.com
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