BSR McDonald MP60 record deck - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

112stereo · 18th Mar 2017, 6:08 pm

Hi,
I have just acquired a BSR mp60 record deck all totally seized as per usual.
Through strip down old grease totally removed and re lubricated where needed.
Fitted a sonotone 9ta cartridge and a known good stylus tracking at 3grams.
A 7" single plays perfectly till around a third through the record then the arm starts to groove jump backwards !
The anti-skate is set to its lowest point, if it is slightly increased them it bearly plays anything at all.
With the anti-skate set to minimum and the tone arm raised by the que lever, moving the tone arm to the runout of the record with no power on and let go it tries to return partly to its rest, so there is something pulling it back which I suppose is the problem tracking the record.
If i disconnect the anti-skate spring i can lower the tracking weight to 2grams and it plays all records perfectly including LP'S.
Has anyone else had a problem with the anti-skate device , I am tempted to leave it disconnected, what does the forum think ?

jacob65 · 18th Mar 2017, 8:42 pm

Fine deck. Remember to set the antiskate according to your stylus shape, and weight ofcourse. There should be elliptical/conical marks etc. Never had any problem with antiskate on my mp60 or p128r. Most of these decks wont track correctly under 2 grams.

112stereo · 18th Mar 2017, 9:11 pm

OK thanks, will give it a try tomorrow.
I am going to try another cartridge as well, just to see what happens.
I have a set up sheet which I thought I had followed, but no luck so far.
I still think there is a problem with the anti-skate device.

GP49000 · 19th Mar 2017, 2:26 am

The problem is unlikely to be in your Sonotone cartridge.

The MP60 has a fully balanced tonearm. Set its tracking weight to zero; the arm should float level. If not, balance the arm using the adjustable counterweight. This will free up the arm to freely move laterally and assist you in finding where the tonearm/antiskate system is malfunctioning. Look for trapped wiring in addition to your antiskate problem. If disconnecting antiskate fixes your problem I'd suggest leaving it at that. For tracking weights of three grams or lower, you don't really need antiskate on this player...as on the Garrard SP25, antiskate was probably a feature demanded by the Advertising Department.

You could also benefit from downloading the Service Manual for the BSR C159 which is essentially the same machine as a record changer. Its troubleshooting section has some suggestions for improper tonearm tracking.

112stereo · 19th Mar 2017, 11:35 am

Hi again,
Just tried and old Ronette 105 stereo cartridge with a good stylus tracking at 5grams.
With the anti-skate set according to the manufacturers spec again it played for about 20seconds into the record then Grove jumped back and got stuck in that position. Removed the anti-skate spring reduced the tracking force to 4 grams and it played the same record all the way through and it even sounded better.
I have a Garrard 3500 and had the tone arm lifted by the cue lift and placed the tone arm where the record finished , with the anti-skate set to minimum the arm didn't move, I had to increase the anti-skate to about half way before there was a slight tendency to pull the tone arm back, with the BSR deck there is a strong pull on the tone arm with the anti-skate set to minimum, turn the anti-skate up to about half way and the tone arm is pulled right back to its rest.
Bearing in mind these last tests were carried out with no power .
I have had a good amplified look at the manufacturers service sheet and everything appears to be in the right place, so I have no idea why the anti-skate on this deck has such a strong pull on it.

jacob65 · 19th Mar 2017, 5:43 pm

I would go for a 2 gram shure cartridge on these turntables. Like a Shure M75-6 or similar.

Edward Huggins · 19th Mar 2017, 6:18 pm

I would be tempted to disconnect the anti-skate when tracking at weights as low as this. At the MP60's price point, "Anti-Skate" may certainly have been a feature in the specification (and with a nod to the competition - the Garrard SP25) but I doubt if it will offer any real benefit with a such crude springing mechanism.

sp10mk11 · 19th Mar 2017, 6:45 pm

Though these decks have high lateral friction on the arms they should play at 2 grams without any problem providing everything else is in order as has been mentioned a Shure M75-6 is a good match for these decks
Have you stripped and cleaned the auto mechanism completely it sounds like you need to do this, the pawl on the gear wheel that drives the auto can after all these years suffer from dried up grease as with rest of the mechanism.
Gary

112stereo · 20th Mar 2017, 11:21 am

Thank you all for your input.
Everything was stripped down and a through clean was done. Obviously at some point the anti-skate worked and I now agree that at 2 to 3 grams tracking force it is not needed, I suppose I am a bit of a perfectionist as I used to be in electrical and mechanical quality control for a large company and it gets to me a bit when I can't get something that clearly did work once going again, I just can't fathom out where its getting the high tension from !
I will be leaving the anti-skate spring off as it works as I want it to without it and will certainly look at other cartridges, but for the moment will use the Sonotone 9ta as it works well with my old valve amplifier, I have to say though with the volume turned up the bass rattles the windows, don't think the neighbours are very happy when I find a track I like !

ALL your comments will be noted for future reference, printed and filed, it's what I do !

But thank you all once again, no doubt I will get another deck in the future and need your help once again till then fairwell.

sp10mk11 · 20th Mar 2017, 5:03 pm

Just out of interest the Bias spring if not set right can catch on the plate as the arm r traverses the disk, I have to use the bias set about 2 for 2.2 gram tracking otherwise the arm will jump forward as it sets down on the disc.
Gary

dinker11 · 20th Mar 2017, 9:48 pm

If all is foxing your setting up of this deck, it maybe that the original spring has been lost and replaced or has been shortened.

If i remember from years ago when working on one of these decks that the spring is wrapped around a plastic cam below the anti skate dial.

At the 0 point, it should just start to tension when the arm is at the run out groove position. If it's tensioning before that then i would think that it's probably the wrong spring.

18th Mar 2017, 6:08 pm	#1
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	BSR McDonald MP60 record deck Hi, I have just acquired a BSR mp60 record deck all totally seized as per usual. Through strip down old grease totally removed and re lubricated where needed. Fitted a sonotone 9ta cartridge and a known good stylus tracking at 3grams. A 7" single plays perfectly till around a third through the record then the arm starts to groove jump backwards ! The anti-skate is set to its lowest point, if it is slightly increased them it bearly plays anything at all. With the anti-skate set to minimum and the tone arm raised by the que lever, moving the tone arm to the runout of the record with no power on and let go it tries to return partly to its rest, so there is something pulling it back which I suppose is the problem tracking the record. If i disconnect the anti-skate spring i can lower the tracking weight to 2grams and it plays all records perfectly including LP'S. Has anyone else had a problem with the anti-skate device , I am tempted to leave it disconnected, what does the forum think ?

18th Mar 2017, 8:42 pm	#2
jacob65 Tetrode Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Aalborg, Denmark Posts: 73	Re: BSR mcdonald mp 60 record deck Fine deck. Remember to set the antiskate according to your stylus shape, and weight ofcourse. There should be elliptical/conical marks etc. Never had any problem with antiskate on my mp60 or p128r. Most of these decks wont track correctly under 2 grams.

18th Mar 2017, 9:11 pm	#3
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: BSR mcdonald mp 60 record deck OK thanks, will give it a try tomorrow. I am going to try another cartridge as well, just to see what happens. I have a set up sheet which I thought I had followed, but no luck so far. I still think there is a problem with the anti-skate device.

19th Mar 2017, 2:26 am	#4
GP49000 Hexode Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sonoma County, California, USA. Posts: 405	Re: BSR McDonald MP60 record deck The problem is unlikely to be in your Sonotone cartridge. The MP60 has a fully balanced tonearm. Set its tracking weight to zero; the arm should float level. If not, balance the arm using the adjustable counterweight. This will free up the arm to freely move laterally and assist you in finding where the tonearm/antiskate system is malfunctioning. Look for trapped wiring in addition to your antiskate problem. If disconnecting antiskate fixes your problem I'd suggest leaving it at that. For tracking weights of three grams or lower, you don't really need antiskate on this player...as on the Garrard SP25, antiskate was probably a feature demanded by the Advertising Department. You could also benefit from downloading the Service Manual for the BSR C159 which is essentially the same machine as a record changer. Its troubleshooting section has some suggestions for improper tonearm tracking. Last edited by GP49000; 19th Mar 2017 at 2:32 am.

19th Mar 2017, 11:35 am	#5
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: BSR McDonald MP60 record deck Hi again, Just tried and old Ronette 105 stereo cartridge with a good stylus tracking at 5grams. With the anti-skate set according to the manufacturers spec again it played for about 20seconds into the record then Grove jumped back and got stuck in that position. Removed the anti-skate spring reduced the tracking force to 4 grams and it played the same record all the way through and it even sounded better. I have a Garrard 3500 and had the tone arm lifted by the cue lift and placed the tone arm where the record finished , with the anti-skate set to minimum the arm didn't move, I had to increase the anti-skate to about half way before there was a slight tendency to pull the tone arm back, with the BSR deck there is a strong pull on the tone arm with the anti-skate set to minimum, turn the anti-skate up to about half way and the tone arm is pulled right back to its rest. Bearing in mind these last tests were carried out with no power . I have had a good amplified look at the manufacturers service sheet and everything appears to be in the right place, so I have no idea why the anti-skate on this deck has such a strong pull on it.

19th Mar 2017, 5:43 pm	#6
jacob65 Tetrode Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Aalborg, Denmark Posts: 73	Re: BSR McDonald MP60 record deck I would go for a 2 gram shure cartridge on these turntables. Like a Shure M75-6 or similar.

19th Mar 2017, 6:18 pm	#7
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: BSR McDonald MP60 record deck I would be tempted to disconnect the anti-skate when tracking at weights as low as this. At the MP60's price point, "Anti-Skate" may certainly have been a feature in the specification (and with a nod to the competition - the Garrard SP25) but I doubt if it will offer any real benefit with a such crude springing mechanism. __________________ Edward.

19th Mar 2017, 6:45 pm	#8
sp10mk11 Octode Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 1,275	Re: BSR McDonald MP60 record deck Though these decks have high lateral friction on the arms they should play at 2 grams without any problem providing everything else is in order as has been mentioned a Shure M75-6 is a good match for these decks Have you stripped and cleaned the auto mechanism completely it sounds like you need to do this, the pawl on the gear wheel that drives the auto can after all these years suffer from dried up grease as with rest of the mechanism. Gary

20th Mar 2017, 11:21 am	#9
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: BSR McDonald MP60 record deck Thank you all for your input. Everything was stripped down and a through clean was done. Obviously at some point the anti-skate worked and I now agree that at 2 to 3 grams tracking force it is not needed, I suppose I am a bit of a perfectionist as I used to be in electrical and mechanical quality control for a large company and it gets to me a bit when I can't get something that clearly did work once going again, I just can't fathom out where its getting the high tension from ! I will be leaving the anti-skate spring off as it works as I want it to without it and will certainly look at other cartridges, but for the moment will use the Sonotone 9ta as it works well with my old valve amplifier, I have to say though with the volume turned up the bass rattles the windows, don't think the neighbours are very happy when I find a track I like ! ALL your comments will be noted for future reference, printed and filed, it's what I do ! But thank you all once again, no doubt I will get another deck in the future and need your help once again till then fairwell.

20th Mar 2017, 5:03 pm	#10
sp10mk11 Octode Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 1,275	Re: BSR McDonald MP60 record deck Just out of interest the Bias spring if not set right can catch on the plate as the arm r traverses the disk, I have to use the bias set about 2 for 2.2 gram tracking otherwise the arm will jump forward as it sets down on the disc. Gary

20th Mar 2017, 9:48 pm	#11
dinker11 Tetrode Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Walthamstow, London, UK. Posts: 54	Re: BSR McDonald MP60 record deck If all is foxing your setting up of this deck, it maybe that the original spring has been lost and replaced or has been shortened. If i remember from years ago when working on one of these decks that the spring is wrapped around a plastic cam below the anti skate dial. At the 0 point, it should just start to tension when the arm is at the run out groove position. If it's tensioning before that then i would think that it's probably the wrong spring.