Wire recorder project - success!

[GM4HQU]

Hi,

I recently recovered many hours of audio from some wire spools that my Grandfather recorded on a homebrew wire recorder back in the late forties/early fifties. I just put up a web page about it where you can see the old Webster wire recorder that I used, and hear some of the sounds.

http://www.gentweb.co.uk/wirerecorder.htm

I'm not sure how common wire recorderes were in the UK - I've found very little evidence of their widespread use here. If anyone has any information, I'd love to hear it. Thanks,
Nick

[Aerodyne]

This is by way of a personal comment - I hope you won't mind. My knowledge of wire recorders is zero, but I found your site very interesting indeed. Oh, sorry again - I don't know the piece of piano music, either.
As far as a family archive is concerned, your recovery and cataloguing of these memories from a vanished time must be seen as a very good thing for yourself and for the future generations of your family. Very well done indeed. You should be proud. I would be.
-Tony

[Nickthedentist]

Hello Nick,

Incerdible work there, it's amazing to hear what's on those spools, and must be even more so for you.

By the way, I've looked up the piano piece in my copy of Barlow & Morgenstern's "A dictionary of musical themes" (1948), and tracked it down as the 1st movement from Beethoven's Piano Sonata no. 19 in G minor, op.49 Not bad playing at all, so it's a shame that your grandfather's piano was so out of tune

I like your great grandfather's storytelling, and the way he complains that you can't telll the boys from the girls these days

Where in the country did your relatives live, by the way?

Nick

[SPCh]

Very well done ! Very much worth doing !

The old "noises" are a delight, especially the personal ones.

The radio comedian's material is very like Al Read, but it doesn't sound like his voice.

[GM4HQU]

Originally Posted by Nickthedentist

By the way, I've looked up the piano piece in my copy of Barlow & Morgenstern's "A dictionary of musical themes" (1948), and tracked it down as the 1st movement from Beethoven's Piano Sonata no. 19 in G minor, op.49 Not bad playing at all, so it's a shame that your grandfather's piano was so out of tune

I like your great grandfather's storytelling, and the way he complains that you can't telll the boys from the girls these days

Where in the country did your relatives live, by the way?

Nick

Wow - thanks Nick! I didn't even know there was such a thing as a dictionary of musical themes! (I'm a jazz musician, you see.......)

My grandfather and all the family were in London. You can perhaps guess that from his father's accent! I also love that story - unfortunately my Grandad cut off the end of the story by recording over it. I suspect he did this because it had a rude ending .

BTW someone told me they think the comedian is Ken Platt. I'm trying to check this out...
Nick.

[Nickthedentist]

Originally Posted by GM4HQU

My grandfather and all the family were in London

The speaker talks about "Garratt Lane" (I think), which is in Earlsfield, SW18, very near where I used to live when I was at school.

Nick.

[GM4HQU]

Originally Posted by Nickthedentist

The speaker talks about "Garratt Lane" (I think), which is in Earlsfield, SW18, very near where I used to live when I was at school.

Yep - I'm pretty sure that's where they lived. My Grandfather moved to Sutton when he married, and my Mum and Uncle are now in Carshalton.

BTW I just found a midi of that sonata in Gm. The clip of my Grandfather playing may sound more out of tune than it really was - as I probably got the speed wrong! On the clip he seems to be playing in about Fm . I can correct it in software, but I suspect (from other tunes) that actually his piano was a little flat!

[ppppenguin]

I think that piano is really out of tune. Just getting the absolute pitch or speed wrong doesn't change the relative pitches. Most of the notes are out of tune within themselves which indicates that the 3 strings for each note (over the treble range) are not in tune with each other.

I would love to have a copy of Barlow and Morgenstern. The great thing about it is that's it's perfectly usable even if you can't read music. My music reading is poor; I'm sure that Nick's is pretty good. I wonder if there's an internet equivalent to B & M.

[Nickthedentist]

Originally Posted by ppppenguin

I think that piano is really out of tune. Just getting the absolute pitch or speed wrong doesn't change the relative pitches. Most of the notes are out of tune within themselves which indicates that the 3 strings for each note (over the treble range) are not in tune with each other.

Yes, no amount of software manipulation would make it sound brilliant, it will always have that pub piano quality. Also don't forget that today's "concert pitch" is considerably higher than what was generally used a few decades ago. And, cheap, old pianos don't tend to hold their pitch well; I find that most junk shop pianos are between a semitone and a tone flat Your 50Hz main hum reference should be extremely accurate.

Originally Posted by ppppenguin

I would love to have a copy of Barlow and Morgenstern.

I bought mine new about 15 years ago, the 1988 Faber & Faber reprint. The content is very much biased to what was available on records in the States just after the War, so it includes composers like Hugo Alfven, Kurt Atterberg, Louis Ganne et. al, yet Vivaldi barely gets a mention. You also need to be able to mentally transpose into C, which if you have absolute ("perfect") pitch, can be suprisingly tricky.

Nick.

[Roy]

In the absence of a copy of Barlow and Morgenstern, the Parsons Code can be useful for identifying tunes (for those of us with or without perfect pitch)

There is an explanation of it here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A860663

and an online code search facility here:

http://www.melodyhound.com/melodic_contour.0.html

If you try typing in the code for the first few bars of the Beethoven Sonata (*UDDUUDDDUUDUUDDUUD) it does identify it correctly.

Roy

[ppppenguin]

Originally Posted by Nickthedentist

Yes, no amount of software manipulation would make it sound brilliant, it will always have that pub piano quality. Also don't forget that today's "concert pitch" is considerably higher than what was generally used a few decades ago. And, cheap, old pianos don't tend to hold their pitch well; I find that most junk shop pianos are between a semitone and a tone flat Your 50Hz main hum reference should be extremely accurate.

Nick is right on all points, though concert pitch has varied quite a bit over the years. I think A440 has been pretty standard after the 2nd World War. A415 (about a semitone down) was usual in the baroque period. That piano would have been great in a pub

Many thanks to Roy who has resolved my confusion between Barlow & Morgenstern and Parsons. The Parsons method works well unless you are absolutely tone deaf and requires no formal musical knowledge at all. It's great that it's available on line.

[GM4HQU]

Originally Posted by ppppenguin

That piano would have been great in a pub
.

There are stories of my Grandfather sticking drawing pins into the hammers on his piano to get that honkey-tonk effect - maybe he had them in . There are a lot of recordings of him on piano - I assume it is always the same one. Most of them are jazz/ragtime and more suited to the sound of the piano! I'm trying to find out whether he used A=440. If he did, I have way misjudged the speed-up of the wire. I think it was at least a semi-tone flat.

There are also recordings on the wires of him playing home-made electronic keyboards, way back in the early 50s. Unfortunately non of the instruments survived, mainly because he cannibalised them for his later models.
Nick (the other Nick...)

[ppppenguin]

Originally Posted by GM4HQU

I'm trying to find out whether he used A=440. If he did, I have way misjudged the speed-up of the wire. I think it was at least a semi-tone flat

The chances of a piano like that being tuned to A440 are pretty minimal. I think you'd be lucky if was only a semitone flat. As Nick (the dentist) said, any 50Hz hum will be a reliable reference.

A bit OT but related to the comment on drawing pins. I was at the Wigmore Hall last week to hear piano trios played by a young ensemble called DIMENSION (they use capital letters). The encore was an arrangement of the waltz from Shostakovich's 1st Jazz Suite. At one point the pianist placed a stick (a conductor's baton?) on the strings of the Steinway to give a passable honky tonk effect.

[Steve_P]

I played that Comic to my other half, and she said...

'It's Ken Platt. When I was a kid there was a programme on the radio at lunchtime called 'Workers Playtime'. Every programme came from a different factory canteen. It had Singers and Comics and Ken Platt was a regular comic on the show.

I think his catchphrase was 'I'll not take my coat off, I'm not stopping' but I'm not sure. I associate that phrase with Workers Playtime but can't remember Al Reed on that programme.'

As for the date, she started school in the Late 50s.

Cheers,

Dilys + Steve

[Paul Stenning]

OT closed