Apollo 11 1969 1" open reel video tapes

[red16v]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

They had 625->405 analogue electronic converters, but NTSC is more challenging because of the different frame rate, so they may have converted optically. I know digital standards converters arrived around 1980, but I don't know if there were earlier analogue designs that could handle 525.

The BBC had their own in-house all digital converter in the late 60's, it was licensed to PYE for commercial production. A Google search reveals more information.

The 'A' format was considered a broadcast standard although not really taking off in the UK. Certainly Anglia television and the London facility house Molinaire had 'A' format machines that were hastily converted to 'C' format when that format was agreed between Ampex and Sony. There was not much difference between the two standards.

From what the pictures show these look knackered with a lot of oxide shedding. I would act with extreme caution as in extreme with a capital 'E'. By all means play the first few seconds to see what's on them, but if you can quickly confirm they contain what you think these contain then STOP immediately and contact the BBC. They will have the deep pockets necessary to have these tapes restored to best condition before they are played - and even then the tape may play only once before becoming unplayable due to oxide shedding. Please don't risk it.

[TIMTAPE]

Originally Posted by red16v

From what the pictures show these look knackered with a lot of oxide shedding. I would act with extreme caution as in extreme with a capital 'E'. By all means play the first few seconds to see what's on them, but if you can quickly confirm they contain what you think these contain then STOP immediately and contact the BBC. They will have the deep pockets necessary to have these tapes restored to best condition before they are played - and even then the tape may play only once before becoming unplayable due to oxide shedding. Please don't risk it.

I'd be even more extreme and not attempt a play on a VTR even for a second. Valuable footage could be in the first few seconds. Tapes can damage VTR's and vice versa. Basically a tape can be better inspected for sticking to itself with nothing but human hands and observation.

[Stuart R]

There's an email address for contacting the BBC Archives department at the bottom of this web page.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/bbc-ar...d-lost/z4nkvk7

Not sure how deep their pockets are these days.

I suppose if sourced within the Netherlands, there's a chance these could be BBC off-air recordings by someone with an interest in DX TV.

I heard too that a few Ampex C-format machines had started out as A-format ones.

SR

[paulsherwin]

The OP has said that the tapes were sourced from the US, so an off-air BBC recording is unlikely, though not impossible.

[Stuart R]

Oops - sorry Paul, I did scroll up and down the posts, saw the US date format discussed but completely missed the mention of the US origin.

SR

[Dutchsteam]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

The OP has said that the tapes were sourced from the US, so an off-air BBC recording is unlikely, though not impossible.

Correct, I suppose it is possible. Perhaps somebody brought the tapes from the UK to US previously. I don't know if UK broadcasts would be available in the US?

Worth a shot. I'd be happy if it ends up being Apollo footage, lost broadcasts would be a huge plus of course.

[Dutchsteam]

Originally Posted by red16v

The BBC had their own in-house all digital converter in the late 60's, it was licensed to PYE for commercial production. A Google search reveals more information.

The 'A' format was considered a broadcast standard although not really taking off in the UK. Certainly Anglia television and the London facility house Molinaire had 'A' format machines that were hastily converted to 'C' format when that format was agreed between Ampex and Sony. There was not much difference between the two standards.

From what the pictures show these look knackered with a lot of oxide shedding. I would act with extreme caution as in extreme with a capital 'E'. By all means play the first few seconds to see what's on them, but if you can quickly confirm they contain what you think these contain then STOP immediately and contact the BBC. They will have the deep pockets necessary to have these tapes restored to best condition before they are played - and even then the tape may play only once before becoming unplayable due to oxide shedding. Please don't risk it.

Are you referring to Memorex-Apollo11-1.jpg to Memorex-Apollo11-4.jpg on my Google Drive link? Those spots you see is the iron carbonyl powder from my magnetic viewing solution. Thoroughly cleaned up after taking photos of the tracks.
I have not seen any oxide shed from any of the 3 tapes, nor does it appear to stick or hang on when unspooling.

I suppose they should be "baked" as a precaution, but I am afraid this can damage the tapes if unnecessary? I read that baking can weaken the magnetic signal on the tape.

I would prefer to not do anything to the tapes if not proven necessary by playing a few seconds and observing.

[Denis G4DWC]

I started a post on the 12 Oct 2009 regarding some Sony 1/2 tapes I'd recorded as the Moon walk took place in 1969.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=46301

I was subsequently contacted by Kaleidoscope who'd seen the thread and they arranged collection of the tapes.

Sometime later I had a mail to say that the footage contained some of the James Burke commentary something that was thought lost forever.

Denis

[Dutchsteam]

Interesting read Denis, always great to recover lost footage of any kind.

Under what kind of terms did you hand over the tapes?

[red16v]

Originally Posted by Dutchsteam

Are you referring to Memorex-Apollo11-1.jpg to Memorex-Apollo11-4.jpg on my Google Drive link? Those spots you see is the iron carbonyl powder from my magnetic viewing solution. Thoroughly cleaned up after taking photos of the tracks.
I have not seen any oxide shed from any of the 3 tapes, nor does it appear to stick or hang on when unspooling.

I suppose they should be "baked" as a precaution, but I am afraid this can damage the tapes if unnecessary? I read that baking can weaken the magnetic signal on the tape.

I would prefer to not do anything to the tapes if not proven necessary by playing a few seconds and observing.

I was. I am pleased for you if the tapes are in a good physical state. This UK company advertises that it can replay A/B/C NTSC/PAL Format tapes, perhaps it might be worth giving them a call for a general chat about your situation? Most professionals are happy to chat about these things out of interest.

https://thegreatbear.net

Do keep us informed of your progress.

[Denis G4DWC]

Originally Posted by Dutchsteam

Interesting read Denis, always great to recover lost footage of any kind.

Under what kind of terms did you hand over the tapes?

I just let them have the tape. Better some organisation can make use of them rather than being in my loft! In any case I had nothing on which to play them back.

Denis

[Dutchsteam]

Found someone an hour driving from here that has a type C machine.

I have been told by DCVideo that a type A tape will have its audio track aligned with the cue track on type C.

Hoping to get a short piece of each tape played soon. This will allow me to verify the contents on the tape by audio.

Then I will know if the labels hold true and I can work on shipping to DCVideo.

Tomorrow is the big day! very exciting.

[paulsherwin]

Good luck with your efforts.

[Dutchsteam]

Scanning head detail of Michaels' type C machine... with the "Landing" tape threaded:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T3G1zG6RLc

[Snarf81]

Good luck! Keep us informed.

[Amtec123]

Originally Posted by Dutchsteam

Scanning head detail of Michaels' type C machine... with the "Landing" tape threaded:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T3G1zG6RLc

Just an observation, assuming the video and audio of the Sony 'c' format m/c YT clip are in sync. What is the audio before the headwheel starts or the pinch engages ?

[Dutchsteam]

Originally Posted by Amtec123

Just an observation, assuming the video and audio of the Sony 'c' format m/c YT clip are in sync. What is the audio before the headwheel starts or the pinch engages ?

An artefact of playing back a 120fps recording at 30 but Davinci Resolve also trying to increase the pitch 4x to compensate. I just found out I could disable the pitch change, so it sounds normal and actually like a slo-mo video.

[Amtec123]

Originally Posted by Dutchsteam

An artefact of playing back a 120fps recording at 30 but Davinci Resolve also trying to increase the pitch 4x to compensate. I just found out I could disable the pitch change, so it sounds normal and actually like a slo-mo video.

Thanks for your reply, the Davinci device explains the strange audio pre playback.
I'm following your progress with interest.