Nice picture from 1946 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

ppppenguin · 14th Dec 2007, 5:41 pm

A friend sent me this. Bit posh, isn't it.

ppppenguin · 14th Dec 2007, 5:55 pm

Sent to me by a friend who's got a fair number of vintage TVs and radios but is not a forum member. I've asked him where it came from.

I've got a funny feeling that the picture is rather earlier than 1946 and is a prediction of a televisual future. It's difficult to see how it could have been painted during the post-war austerity.

PS: I've just been told it came from Illustrated News magazine. Unfortunately I don't have a date.

pmmunro · 14th Dec 2007, 8:29 pm

Perhaps time to call in assistance from the experts.

I would expect that most of us could date a radio/television set to a year or two by the characteristic appearance of the components but how many of us can date a hairstyle or dress fashion as accurately?

I would also guess that most publicity artists were male at this time and would not be able to predict fashion matters, or perhaps it was safest to stick with the familiar.

The drawing may be more egalitarian than suggested; by 1946, everyone would be well-enough off to live in this style, wouldn't they?

PMM.

Phil G4SPZ · 14th Dec 2007, 9:43 pm

I'm no historian, either, but my guess is that the picture may date from the late 1930s, before the war - the audience's clothing suggests a pre-war opulence that would have been well out-of-date by 1945, as others have mentioned.

Fascinating! Thanks for posting it Jeffrey.

Phil

ppppenguin · 15th Dec 2007, 11:03 am

The artist is Steven Spurrier, a well known illustrator.

Aerodyne · 15th Dec 2007, 11:12 am

Interesting picture, Jeffrey. Not a brilliant work of art by any means, but rather obviously of the late 1930s period (even if it turns out to have been published post-war!). The combined radio/TV is the mirror-lid type, again an obvious 1930s connection. The idea of evening dress for TV watching is another throwback to the period - lots of early 30s radio magazines depicted an impossibly elegant world, sadly far removed from reality (probably, however, what people wished for in those austere, depressed times) where chaps in tail coats wore headphones to listen to invisible announcers dressed similarly. This elitist magazine attitude (on the part of the illustrators if not the technical staff) clung on into the 1950s; remember Practical Wireless covers, showing gents in bow ties and suits working at the bench?
Barnaby Hyndesyte strikes again...
-Tony

Station X · 15th Dec 2007, 5:34 pm

It's interesting that there are seven women and four men in the picture. Presumably women were more likely to watch TV than men?

pmmunro · 15th Dec 2007, 6:51 pm

Maybe I was too subtle, not usually a problem; the "experts" I had in mind were people who would know about dress and hairstyling of the mid 20th century. Does no one have a wife/partner/girlfriend who can pinpoint these fashion cues to within a month or two? Surely we wouldn't be reluctant to ask, would we?

PMM.

Ray Cooper · 15th Dec 2007, 7:26 pm

Quote:

...Does no one have a wife/partner/girlfriend who can pinpoint these fashion cues to within a month or two?...

I have submitted this piccie to She Who Must Be Obeyed, and she unhesitatingly said 'mid to late 'thirties'.

Her reasoning included the following factors:

* the evening costume worn by the adult males was obsolete by 1946

* the hair-styles of the ladies are certainly 'thirties

* the 'puffed sleeves' of the young girl are certainly pre-war

* the Eton collar and bum-freezer jacket of the young boy would also be obsolete post-war.

Another interesting facet is that the caption clearly calls attention to the date '1946'. If it were a contemporary illustration of 1946, this would not be necessary. If, however, the date is 1936, the picture can be seen as a projection of the future - 'this is what television will be like in ten years time'.

They weren't to know about WWII, after all, and couldn't be expected to predict the fashions ten years hence...

Brian R Pateman · 15th Dec 2007, 7:28 pm

I've printed the original picture and will consult the aforementioned Lady Helen who knows a thing or two about fashion, decor and style (which is more than can be said for me).

Regards,

Brian R Pateman · 15th Dec 2007, 7:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Cooper

the picture can be seen as a projection of the future - 'this is what television will be like in ten years time'.

Ray, or Mrs Ray got in first!

I think that Ray's comment quoted above is an interesting one and probably pretty accurate.

Regards,

ppppenguin · 15th Dec 2007, 7:42 pm

Quote:

'this is what television will be like in ten years time'

I agree with Ray and his SWMBO, I'm sure they've got it right. One slightly surprising thing is that the picture shows a mirror lid set. Even in 1936 this was just an ugly expedient to keep the cabinet to a reasonable depth. It wouldn't have taken much of a look into the future to have a directly viewed picture. Maybe not a flat display, like that prediction of home shopping picture in an (Mullard?) advertisement that I've seen somewhere. Heaven knows why Ekco made the TSC48 after the war.

Aerodyne · 16th Dec 2007, 1:02 pm

An artist can only work on an extrapolation of existing technology and scientific knowledge whenever attempting to depict the future*. Long-throw CRTs were the only type at one point in the mid/late 1930s and the mirror-lid was possibly the only way of obtaining a reasonable size of picture without dismantling walls!
If only reality had been anything like the image shown for more than the privileged few.
-Tony
*Some do it brilliantly, though. Take Frank Hampson's 1951 creation, Dan Dare...

14th Dec 2007, 5:41 pm	#1
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Nice picture from 1946 A friend sent me this. Bit posh, isn't it. Attached Thumbnails

14th Dec 2007, 5:55 pm	#2
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Nice picture from 1946 Sent to me by a friend who's got a fair number of vintage TVs and radios but is not a forum member. I've asked him where it came from. I've got a funny feeling that the picture is rather earlier than 1946 and is a prediction of a televisual future. It's difficult to see how it could have been painted during the post-war austerity. PS: I've just been told it came from Illustrated News magazine. Unfortunately I don't have a date. Last edited by ppppenguin; 14th Dec 2007 at 6:23 pm.

14th Dec 2007, 8:29 pm	#3
pmmunro Octode Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dundee, UK. Posts: 1,813	Re: Nice picture from 1946 Perhaps time to call in assistance from the experts. I would expect that most of us could date a radio/television set to a year or two by the characteristic appearance of the components but how many of us can date a hairstyle or dress fashion as accurately? I would also guess that most publicity artists were male at this time and would not be able to predict fashion matters, or perhaps it was safest to stick with the familiar. The drawing may be more egalitarian than suggested; by 1946, everyone would be well-enough off to live in this style, wouldn't they? PMM.

14th Dec 2007, 9:43 pm	#4
Phil G4SPZ Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK. Posts: 4,748	Re: Nice picture from 1946 I'm no historian, either, but my guess is that the picture may date from the late 1930s, before the war - the audience's clothing suggests a pre-war opulence that would have been well out-of-date by 1945, as others have mentioned. Fascinating! Thanks for posting it Jeffrey. Phil __________________ Phil Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts Last edited by Phil G4SPZ; 14th Dec 2007 at 9:50 pm. Reason: Repetitition removed

15th Dec 2007, 11:03 am	#5
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Nice picture from 1946 The artist is Steven Spurrier, a well known illustrator.

15th Dec 2007, 11:12 am	#6
Aerodyne Octode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hampton Vale, Peterborough, UK. Posts: 1,698	Re: Nice picture from 1946 Interesting picture, Jeffrey. Not a brilliant work of art by any means, but rather obviously of the late 1930s period (even if it turns out to have been published post-war!). The combined radio/TV is the mirror-lid type, again an obvious 1930s connection. The idea of evening dress for TV watching is another throwback to the period - lots of early 30s radio magazines depicted an impossibly elegant world, sadly far removed from reality (probably, however, what people wished for in those austere, depressed times) where chaps in tail coats wore headphones to listen to invisible announcers dressed similarly. This elitist magazine attitude (on the part of the illustrators if not the technical staff) clung on into the 1950s; remember Practical Wireless covers, showing gents in bow ties and suits working at the bench? Barnaby Hyndesyte strikes again... -Tony

15th Dec 2007, 5:34 pm	#7
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,289	Re: Nice picture from 1946 It's interesting that there are seven women and four men in the picture. Presumably women were more likely to watch TV than men? __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

15th Dec 2007, 6:51 pm	#8
pmmunro Octode Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dundee, UK. Posts: 1,813	Re: Nice picture from 1946 Maybe I was too subtle, not usually a problem; the "experts" I had in mind were people who would know about dress and hairstyling of the mid 20th century. Does no one have a wife/partner/girlfriend who can pinpoint these fashion cues to within a month or two? Surely we wouldn't be reluctant to ask, would we? PMM.

15th Dec 2007, 7:28 pm	#10
Brian R Pateman Nonode Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Lake District, Cumbria (CA20) - UK Posts: 2,136	Re: Nice picture from 1946 I've printed the original picture and will consult the aforementioned Lady Helen who knows a thing or two about fashion, decor and style (which is more than can be said for me). Regards, __________________ Brian Last edited by Mike Phelan; 8th Dec 2008 at 1:01 pm. Reason: Reference to deleted quote removed (for archive)

16th Dec 2007, 1:02 pm	#13
Aerodyne Octode Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hampton Vale, Peterborough, UK. Posts: 1,698	Re: Nice picture from 1946 An artist can only work on an extrapolation of existing technology and scientific knowledge whenever attempting to depict the future. Long-throw CRTs were the only type at one point in the mid/late 1930s and the mirror-lid was possibly the only way of obtaining a reasonable size of picture without dismantling walls! If only reality had been anything like the image shown for more than the privileged few. -Tony Some do it brilliantly, though. Take Frank Hampson's 1951 creation, Dan Dare...