UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Radio (domestic)

Notices

Vintage Radio (domestic) Domestic vintage radio (wireless) receivers only.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 30th Jun 2011, 8:43 am   #1
AndrewLincs
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cranwell, Lincolnshire
Posts: 23
Default Low power MW transmitter?

As one radio has become five and the MW band seems a sad shadow of it's former self, I thought a small am transmitter might be a good idea.

I see the Gizmo is available, but I was wondering if these are legal to use in the UK?

As a licensed radio amateur I wouldn't want to upset the authorities.

Regards

Andrew
AndrewLincs is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 8:56 am   #2
Andy Doz
Hexode
 
Andy Doz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.
Posts: 376
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

Unfortunately not.

FM band, yes ... AM sadly not
Andy Doz is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 8:58 am   #3
bluepilot
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Duffort, Gers, France
Posts: 714
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

With suitable attenuation, you can always feed the output straight into the antenna socket.
__________________
Stuart

The golden age is always yesterday - Asa Briggs
bluepilot is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 8:59 am   #4
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 21,192
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

The legality of micro transmitters has been discussed in the forums many times. See this thread for example:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=50014
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.
Station X is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 9:07 am   #5
AndrewLincs
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cranwell, Lincolnshire
Posts: 23
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

Thanks Graham, obviously I need to hone my search skills as I didn't find that thread!

At a local museum, they have a low power transmitter, but they do display a licence for it, I wonder if this is available to individuals, I may speak with the authorities and see what they say...

Regards

Andrew
AndrewLincs is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 9:17 am   #6
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 21,192
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

If they say "No" what will you do then? Deliberately operate a micro transmitter knowing it to be illegal?

Forum members have been using micro transmitters for years without attracting the attention of OFCOM. Please don't start stirring things.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.
Station X is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 9:52 am   #7
AndrewLincs
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cranwell, Lincolnshire
Posts: 23
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

Wise advice, which, after some consideration, I plan to follow!

Regards

Andrew
AndrewLincs is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 11:00 am   #8
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,923
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

That thread does indeed work. Am I right in thinking the "Spitfire" tx is legal? Think that also has been discussed before.

David GM8JET
HamishBoxer is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 11:24 am   #9
AndrewLincs
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cranwell, Lincolnshire
Posts: 23
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

Yes, the thread works and I have now read it. I just hadn't found it prior to the link being posted.

Regards

Andrew
AndrewLincs is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 11:43 am   #10
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,787
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamishBoxer View Post
Am I right in thinking the "Spitfire" tx is legal?
No microtransmitter without a CE mark is legal.

The issue isn't legality, it's responsible use. If the signal from your microtransmitter can't be heard by your neighbours they won't complain to Ofcom and you won't get a knock on the door. If you build some lashup with 6L6 valves chucking out harmonics all over the place, you'll make a considerable nuisance of yourself and quite rightly attract official attention.
paulsherwin is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 11:46 am   #11
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,923
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

Thank You Paul,re CE mark.Agree entirely with your comments and holding a ham licence would not want to upset anybody or my hard work years ago getting it will be up in smoke as i would loose it pronto.

David GM8JET
HamishBoxer is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 11:47 am   #12
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,923
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

PS Am aware also that we don't discuss anything illegal on this excellent group.
HamishBoxer is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 11:58 am   #13
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

Interesting reading all on this thread..When I was a young spotty and keen to expand my knowledge of all things radio and tv we knocked up a low power TX in the workshop (In the firms time) in an attempt to transmitt video taken from a Pye V110 across the workshop to my mates bench..it worked and even managed to lock sync!
But that was then and in todays crowded bands I would be ashamed to do anything like that.
Wasn't it nice being young.
I suppose in all this you takes yer choice but think about what you might be spoiling for others and long term.
Cheers.
ms660 is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 12:09 pm   #14
neon indicator
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Co. Limerick, Ireland.
Posts: 1,183
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

Just tell Ofcom it's for PC networking. Then they will ignore it.

http://www.techtir.ie/node/1002107
http://www.techtir.ie/forum/homeplug-plt-comtrend

If you use genuine micropower and don't attach external aerial then there isn't a problem. If it's a small loop and range is a few meters in same room it's hardly different to some CFL lamps, inductive charging mats etc, and if it's connected directly by twisted pair or coax (nanopower) then it's a signal generator and not a transmitter.

What ever you do, never connect an aerial to other than a transmitter that can be licensed (assuming you have a licence) or a CB or WiFi. The "iTrip" legal CE marked micro power FM TX, PMR446, 49MHz gear etc you can't connect your own aerial.

Don't even talk to Comreg, Ofcom or FCC or any regulator about transmitters unless to get a licence for one that's already got an application form / licence procedure (I.e. Amateur Radio, Taxi Mobile, Security handsets, Marine radio etc all have defined bands and licence procedure).

AFAIK the ONLY people in the World, anywhere allowed to build a transmitter and use it without ETSI certification, CE mark or other related procedure, are fully licensed Radio Amateurs. Even then they must satisfy regulator that their "Station" can monitor/test it that it's on the predefined Amateur bands and power limits and out of band emission levels.

If your "microtransmitter" has no external aerial, can't be picked up by neighbours, is effectively inductively coupled (small loop) or ideally direct coupled, simply call it a test generator. Never a transmitter. In case someone you show it to gets wrong end of stick and describes it as a Transmitter to someone else, and later Ofcom come and seize your "Pirate Radio Station".

It's not a matter of cheating or legality. If it's really a signal generator it's legal. If it's creating a nuisance, it's an illegal transmitter. So no external aerials and no "power".

If you have a scanner you can pick up the Local oscillator of virtually all radios and the IF of most older ones. I used to "tune in" to 6MHz sound IF of TV on a SW radio in next room.

Don't poke wasp's nests and ant hills to see what comes out!
neon indicator is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 12:10 pm   #15
mark pirate
Dekatron
 
mark pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Posts: 5,185
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

It is possible to use a low power transmitter responsibly, without causing interference to neighbours, out of interest, i have spoken to mine on the subject.

It appears that none now use mw (or long wave for that matter), so no problems there.

I also have an fm transmitter that is ce marked, it's intended use is for connecting an mp3 player to an fm radio, i am surprised that these are legal & am transmitters are not.

Mark
mark pirate is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 12:13 pm   #16
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,923
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

To both those last comments and a bit ot,i did poke a wasp nest once in the attic with long cane but had the tin of wasp ready!

Also when i was possibly 14 years old had a WS17 45Mcs that wiped nextdoors tv off,my dad said cant be me as the power to my shed was off.It was run on batteries!
HamishBoxer is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 12:21 pm   #17
richrussell
Heptode
 
richrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 979
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

If it's directly connected to the Aerial In socket on the back of the radio then it's simply a signal generator that happens to be modulated with audio rather than a fixed frequency tone (like you'd use for alignment). Obviously take care to screen the source and cable to prevent it radiating too much, but as the power can be extremely low it's unlikely to penetrate the walls...
richrussell is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 12:22 pm   #18
AndrewLincs
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cranwell, Lincolnshire
Posts: 23
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamishBoxer View Post
PS Am aware also that we don't discuss anything illegal on this excellent group.
Don't you mean unlawful? After all an illeagle is a sick bird!

Regards

Andrew

Last edited by AndrewLincs; 30th Jun 2011 at 12:31 pm. Reason: remove failed smilie.
AndrewLincs is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 12:24 pm   #19
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

WO! I listen to MW as a substitute for my cr...y FM reception and also LW occasionaly.
How about an experimenters frequency..but then again some ape with 813's in parallel push pull would spoil it I suppose.
ms660 is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2011, 12:38 pm   #20
neon indicator
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Co. Limerick, Ireland.
Posts: 1,183
Default Re: Low power MW transmitter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark pirate View Post

I also have an fm transmitter that is ce marked, it's intended use is for connecting an mp3 player to an fm radio, i am surprised that these are legal & am transmitters are not.
OT
There is an explanation for that! Basically the Regulators in Europe (like with PLT networking) faced with a Fiat Acompli by the Gadget makers flogging MP3 to Car FM Radio adaptors. So they decided to legalise them.

I use mine on a €35 satellite receiver (my distribution system has four LNB feeds and 16 outlets). Then I can listen to R4 on any FM radio in the house (88.1MHz). I'm a bit out of range of BBC FM transmitters A second one lives in attic on our server @ 88.5MHz. Using browser on phone/gadget/netbook via WiFi you go to a web page and setup WinAmp playlist. Then listen on any FM radio in house. Stereo, €8 each and work on old 5V phone chargers. They are very distorted on battery as the chip is 2.75V to 3.3V and the internal battery option is single AAA cell (1.5V). There is phone charger sized jack socket for power and internal regulator, so likely the "5V in" isn't critical.

If you flood the EU market with 10 Million sales of Micro Power AM radio adaptors for MP3s (an unlikely feat as I can't see the demand compared with FM Stereo), then they would get a spec and be legalised. Actually sales of standalone FM micropower TX may decline as many MP3 players, gadgets and phones start to have them built in.

Quote:
How about an experimenters frequency..
It's called Amateur Radio (till a few years ago officially called "Wireless Experimenters" in Ireland). Closest frequencies to AM are 137KHz and 1.8MHz. Though 500KHz or near it might get added.

You can't put music on it though.

Last edited by neon indicator; 30th Jun 2011 at 12:45 pm.
neon indicator is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:13 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.