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Old 20th Jan 2019, 9:41 pm   #101
m0cemdave
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

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Originally Posted by avocollector View Post
One query though - did the UK have a panic over some of the components of the holders
I think there has been a fuss over some of the capacitors containing synthetic oils made of polychlorinated biphenyl, which need to be disposed of properly rather than thrown in landfill sites.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 9:47 pm   #102
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

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Many thanks to you all for the info in this thread. I had not realised the fluorescent tubes in my workshop posed a risk with the two small lathes I use from time to time. One query though - did the UK have a panic over some of the components of the holders? - (fluorocarbons or something either in the starters or the ballast resistor) Here in NZ there was mass horror at this and heaps of fluorescents were trashed thanks to it. That's how I ended up with 5 or so double fitting and umpteen tubes for free.
PCBs oils in capacitors.

Very early fluo tubes also contained beryllium oxide of all lovely things.

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Old 20th Jan 2019, 10:04 pm   #103
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

Storing A FEW spare 'tubes isn't too much of a hassle using springy C clips.
A smaller clip nearby can hold a spare starter.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 10:10 pm   #104
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

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Originally Posted by avocollector View Post
One query though - did the UK have a panic over some of the components of the holders? - (fluorocarbons or something either in the starters or the ballast resistor) Here in NZ there was mass horror at this and heaps of fluorescents were trashed thanks to it.
PCBs - quite nasty substances, and they were in a lot of old fittings used here.

If you really have a couple of PCB-containing fittings, you'll need to talk to your local council or the EPA when it comes time to replace and dispose of them - see https://www.epa.govt.nz/industry-are...iphenyls-pcbs/
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 10:15 pm   #105
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

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Originally Posted by avocollector View Post
Many thanks to you all for the info in this thread. I had not realised the fluorescent tubes in my workshop posed a risk with the two small lathes I use from time to time. One query though - did the UK have a panic over some of the components of the holders? - (fluorocarbons or something either in the starters or the ballast resistor) Here in NZ there was mass horror at this and heaps of fluorescents were trashed thanks to it. That's how I ended up with 5 or so double fitting and umpteen tubes for free.
Oh dear.

That sounds like a case-study in how knee-jerk reaction to an incompletely understood problem can be negative and counter-productive. Surely the appropriate response would have been,

"Leave it in place until it fails in use, then replace it with something appropriate. The internal components are best left undisturbed where they are. Don't cut the capacitors open, don't chew them or give them to toddlers or chuck them in the fire. When the time is right, dispose of appropriately. All will be just fine".

Result, a temporally-dispersed problem with plenty of time to formulate safe handling and disposal by the pertinent authorities.

Instead of which, a concentrated geological landfill layer of corroding, PCB-containing capacitors has formed. Great.

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Old 26th Jan 2019, 11:23 am   #106
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

Never one to be an unthinking dinosaur I splashed out and got a replacement LED tube for my smaller aquarium lighting. It came with a 'free' ballast / starter (very light, feels empty). Anyway, I confess it looks as good as the flouro tube, it lighter and feels much more robust. Sadly, it is audible on top band and 20m, but at very low levels and to be honest, it really won't bother my radio work at all. It doesn't even register an S Point.

So, yes, very good. Cost wise, not as cheap as fluoro but, like all energy saving electronics the real energy they save is the sellers energy in extracting my money.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 11:25 am   #107
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

My workshop LED panel radiates on 433.125 wiping out the local repeater if I park the 'bike underneath it.
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Old 1st Feb 2019, 1:28 pm   #108
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

My partner has a livery yard, about 10 years ago we fitted all new weatherproof flouro battens in the horse stable area. Sixteen in total and quite high in the air as its a converted pole barn.

I can't wait to see the end of fluorescent lamps, the damn things have been a royal PITA since they were fitted. Lamps failing, not working in the cold and the latest issue is not being able to switch one circuit of them on as it trips the main circuit breaker and leaves the whole place in darkness - not ideal for a building in the middle of nowhere. Id love to retrofit LED lamps and totally wire out the iron ballasts, but the cost is prohibitive at the moment. Once they come down to a sensible cost the old troublesome flouro lamps will be consigned to the bin.
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Old 1st Feb 2019, 2:46 pm   #109
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

It may be worth saving the weatherproof housings from those lamps.
I would whip one down and convert it to LEDs and see how it goes.
Those housings are likely worth three times the price of a basic unit.
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Old 1st Feb 2019, 4:47 pm   #110
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

As previously noted, wiping the tubes with wax furniture polish (preferably silicone if you can find any) can fix reluctance to start in cold/damp conditions.
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Old 21st Mar 2019, 12:49 am   #111
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

I was in B&Q this afternoon and noticed to my amazement, that they have introduced a brand new range of fluorescent batten fittings!! Not just one or two but a good 10' of aisle space devoted to them. 3,4,& 5 foot twin fittings and 3,4,5 & 6 foot single & twin weatherproof ones! Amongst the dozens of fluorescent ones, there were only two or three LED ones.

So what on earth has prompted them to do this, I know not!

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Old 24th Mar 2019, 1:32 pm   #112
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

I suspect that they got a very good deal from a manufacturer or importer whom was stuck with excess stock.
I suspect that manufacture of fluorescent light fittings has largely ceased, though there are probably a lot left in the supply chain.
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 2:18 pm   #113
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

Yeah, sales probably declined more rapidly than the importer/manufacturer expected, leaving them with what they deemed dead weight. Enter B&Q stage left with ideas of a speculative offer to clear the warehouse! 3' foot fittings aren't too common and i imagine they might have been knocking around for some time gathering dust.

One hopes they are not substandard quality.. or a design rejected by other territories.

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Old 24th Mar 2019, 2:25 pm   #114
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

They have just started renovating Chelmsford market. On talking to a stall holder, it seems this includes lowering the ceiling and replacing all the fluorescent fittings with led lighting that is promised to be brighter. The stall holder was happy with the promised improved illumination, but not at the month's loss of trade with no temporary rent reduction afterwards to compensate for it.

I do wonder how reliable the LEDs will be in practice? We have had a number of our street lights upgraded to LEDs in the past year and about 5% are faulty, mainly by flickering on and off rather than failing completely. This affects both street lights and illuminated traffic island "Keep Left" signs.
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 3:34 pm   #115
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

Chelmsford market- still under the multi-storey? If so it's a pretty hostile environment for anything electronic/DC. Hot dog fumes from below and effluvia/disinfectant from above. I don't think LED will fare too well. The robust nature of battens has been taken for granted i think-we've been spoilt.

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Old 24th Mar 2019, 6:45 pm   #116
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

More significantly, while they all tout the 'brighter' word for LED replacement, in the case of street lighting that is often not the case. Here at least many of our streets and footpaths are noticeably dark and dim when driving and walking down them at night. Maybe the light is more focussed but it is not an improvement from what I can see.

I replaced the fluorescent fitting in the kitchen a couple of years ago when T12 tubes became unavailable. At the time I was assured that T8 would continue to be widely available. Maybe I should have gone to LED then...

Dave
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 8:41 pm   #117
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

We're about to replace a few dozen T8 fluorescent tubes in the machine shop. Both the triphosphor tubes and the HF gear were of good make and have given excellent service, with no early tube failures and no failed control gear to date at about 10 years of age. The oldest tubes will be at around 30k hours and are unsurprisingly starting to fail. None will have done less than 20k so I'm just going to swap the lot for speed. It would be difficult to justify changing these to LED yet. If the gear expires with the next batch of tubes, or replacement tubes are unavailable, it will still be years from now and a new generation of LED products will be on the market by then.

In the old machine shop, all the fluorescents had wirewound ballasts and thus presented a risk of strobing. To minimise this, they were spread amongst the three phases in both axes of the grid, and some fittings were lead-lag duals. In truth, the effect was barely noticeable even when shadow was created so that a moving part was mainly lit by one fitting. When we relocated, using HF was a no-brainer.

The office / client building on the old site was lit mainly by 4-tube 600x1200 fittings in the celiing grid, with wirewound ballasts. These worked fine, and as they were all readily accessible from a stepladder it wasn't a big deal to change tubes and starters. Then, one day after a spate of failures, we splashed out on a complete set of electronic pulsestarters for the whole building, and changed all tubes more than a year or two old. This was a revelation; I don't think we changed another tube or starter until we left a few years later.

It makes me wonder, how many experiences of irritating and badly-behaved fluorescent lighting could have been avoided with the more general use of electronic gear or starters, or even wirewound fittings other than switchstart with the ubiquitous glow-starter. My shed has four T12 Thorn Semi-resonant fittings that always start in one second in deepest winter (although they require a striped tube). Autotransformer gear is better still...
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 9:05 pm   #118
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

Agreed, the electronic starters are very worthwhile- the correct warm up time is detected and applied. On the rare occasions they erroneously detect a dud tube it's a result of a damp environment, cured by spraying the tube with silicon.

What is a striped tube Lucien? I know the Thorn SRS sittings require a T12.

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Old 24th Mar 2019, 9:35 pm   #119
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

Yes, the 6' twin HF fittings have proved to be excellent. The first ones I installed some 15 years ago in a factory where the mains voltage was consistently too low to run switch start fittings. With all the machinery running, on a bad day, 205V was not unusual!

Electronic ballast failures have been pretty even over the years- usually about 2 per year. The fittings (Fitzgerald ones with proper end caps, not rotate the tube types!) had a mix of either Philips or Tridonic gear.

Out of interest I've dismantled the failed ones. The Philips ones all suffered dry joints (now there's a surprise!) but the Tridonic ones had blown themselves to bits! Some of the Philips ones had a huge charred hole around the input choke pins!

I'm sure T8 tubes and electronic ballasts will be available for many years.

Not only are fluorescent off the menu at my electrical wholesaler, but so is discharge lighting! The 250W metal halide or SON low bay has been a standard for years. I can still get them special order, but they don't stock them.

Trying to work out a cost effective replacement for these is not so easy. Large arrays of high power LED's generate large amounts of heat which has to be got rid of. Some of these replacement lamps have cooling fans- now I can't see a cooling fan lasting long in a grubby dusty environment .
Other LED fittings are the best part of a couple of hundred quid with unproven reliability, whereas a metal halide for £70, I can guarantee the customer will work for years!

We are still very much in transition at the moment and LED technology hasn't settled down yet.

Cheers
Nick
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Old 24th Mar 2019, 10:24 pm   #120
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Default Re: The demise of the fluorescent tube

Yes, its the one under the multistory car park.

The new street lights are certainly more directional. My late mother's house had a 40' front garden and the old street lights used to illuminate the porch adequately. After they fitted led street lights the porch was pitch black and she suffered her first ever attempted burglary by attempting to force both the front door and the window of the front room she was then using as a bedroom. I then fitted a porch light so that her carers could read the numbers of her key safe. She lived on a main dual carriageway road, not a back street.

I think the stripe lamps were those that had a wire running along the outside of the tube connected to the end caps. We had this sort of tube in the fittings when they replaced the old GLS lamps with fluorescent lamps at my school circa 1959. I haven't come across any others with external wires. Before I discovered that waxing the tube completely cured cold starting, I used to keep a metal tube in the kitchen with which to touch the tube of our Crompton Snapstart fitting in winter.

Last edited by emeritus; 24th Mar 2019 at 10:54 pm.
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