UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items

Notices

Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 7th May 2024, 8:57 am   #1
19Seventy7
Octode
 
19Seventy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,312
Default Asbestos in 70's Toaster. Pifco 1846.

Hi all

I've recently started using a 70s toaster after our modern one died. I noticed that the heating elements are wrapped around 6 sheets of asbestos, which obviously isn't ideal. I'd really like to continue using the 70s toaster as it does a much better job than any other modern toaster we've had, but the asbestos is a little off putting to say the least.

Has anyone ever replaced the asbestos in toasters or similar before? If so what did you use in place? I was thinking of getting some ceramic or another suitable material to put in place. It doesn't look like it'd be too hard to get into it to do so.

Thanks
'77
19Seventy7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 9:09 am   #2
Cobaltblue
Moderator
 
Cobaltblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Exeter, Devon and Poole, Dorset UK.
Posts: 6,956
Default Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

Is it really asbestos?

I haven't seen that, I have seen the elements woven into sheets of Mica though.

As with all things pictures would help to be sure.

Cheers

Mike T
__________________
Invisible airwaves crackle with life or at least they used to
Mike T BVWS member.
www.cossor.co.uk
Cobaltblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 9:15 am   #3
Sean Williams
Dekatron
 
Sean Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St.Ippolyts, Hitchin, Hertfordshire QRA IO91UW
Posts: 3,526
Default Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

Erm, not wishing to curb your enthusiasm, but.....

If the insulating material in the toaster is Asbestos, then removing it, unwinding the element, and then replacing with a modern substitute is going to create dust.

Asbestos Dust is the problem here - the fibres get into your airways, then to your lungs, and in 20-50 years time you develop asbestosis.

Not all asbestos is harmful, but without proper analysis, you do not know the type you may be dealing with.

Far better is to leave well alone, and just use the toaster as it was designed.

It is possible that the material is in fact Mica sheet - this is harmless, and should be fine where it is.

Seriously, you do not want to be messing around with anything Asbestos - Even suspected material should be treated with respect and care.
__________________
Engineers make things work and have spare bits when finished
Sean Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 10:36 am   #4
19Seventy7
Octode
 
19Seventy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,312
Default Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

Quote:
Is it really asbestos?

I haven't seen that, I have seen the elements woven into sheets of Mica though.

As with all things pictures would help to be sure.
I'm not totally convinced it's Mica, judging from pictures online, I haven't seen anything that matches the texture of the sheets in my toaster, it seems to be much flatter and smoother looking online - but I am looking at images 50 years newer, manufacturing techniques have undoubtedly changed in that time.

I've included a few photos, and one of the whole thing for anyone interested too.

Quote:
Erm, not wishing to curb your enthusiasm, but.....

If the insulating material in the toaster is Asbestos, then removing it, unwinding the element, and then replacing with a modern substitute is going to create dust.

Asbestos Dust is the problem here - the fibres get into your airways, then to your lungs, and in 20-50 years time you develop asbestosis.

Not all asbestos is harmful, but without proper analysis, you do not know the type you may be dealing with.

Far better is to leave well alone, and just use the toaster as it was designed.

It is possible that the material is in fact Mica sheet - this is harmless, and should be fine where it is.

Seriously, you do not want to be messing around with anything Asbestos - Even suspected material should be treated with respect and care
Not at all, I totally appreciate it! I was planning on doing it, if at all, outside, and wearing decent PPE and disposing of it properly. My main concern is due to the edges looking frayed, seen in the 3rd image. If it wasn't already frayed, I'd be much more comfortable leaving it in place.

Thanks for the speedy replies, too!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	280
Size:	35.8 KB
ID:	297258   Click image for larger version

Name:	2.jpg
Views:	278
Size:	56.3 KB
ID:	297259   Click image for larger version

Name:	3.jpg
Views:	290
Size:	50.9 KB
ID:	297260   Click image for larger version

Name:	4.jpg
Views:	248
Size:	91.0 KB
ID:	297261  
19Seventy7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 10:51 am   #5
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 18,042
Default Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

Yes, doesn't look like mica to me either.
Nickthedentist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 10:52 am   #6
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 21,512
Default Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

My advice is to keep using the toaster and leave the insulating material, whatever it is, well alone.

Does this help?

https://www.asbestos123.com/

https://www.asbestos123.com/news/asb...0health%20risk.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.
Station X is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 11:29 am   #7
19Seventy7
Octode
 
19Seventy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,312
Default Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

It does help a little bit, thank you for sending those links. To be honest, it's not the fact it's asbestos that worries me so much, it's the frayed looking edges that makes me think it's damaged?

I have a 60s Bush TV with asbestos surrounding the dropper, which I have no problem with leaving in place as it looks fine, its edges are still flat and smooth with no damage at all, but the edges in the toaster just don't fill me with as much confidence lol.

Well, I'll leave it in place and enjoy it for what it is!

I really appreciate the replies, thank you all!

Last edited by 19Seventy7; 7th May 2024 at 11:38 am.
19Seventy7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 12:08 pm   #8
The Philpott
Dekatron
 
The Philpott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,150
Default Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

Just to round off, i grew up with the ethos that serpentine asbestos was a good degree 'safer' than amphibole asbestos, but research carried out in the 'nineties suggests that those of us who were in the habit of breaking up corrugated asbestos cement sheets were definitely putting ourselves at risk; it's all hazardous.

Dave
The Philpott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 12:08 pm   #9
Sean Williams
Dekatron
 
Sean Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St.Ippolyts, Hitchin, Hertfordshire QRA IO91UW
Posts: 3,526
Default Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

Some relevant guidance, showing just how even non-licenced works should be carried out.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/a32.pdf

I'm a bit geeky about this subject - sorry, my company is working on a site that has significant Asbestos Containing Materials all scheduled for removal later this month - the paper trail and cost is nothing short of staggering!
__________________
Engineers make things work and have spare bits when finished
Sean Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 1:53 pm   #10
PsychMan
Octode
 
PsychMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Fleet, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,767
Smile Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

I think, as you say the material does look a bit degraded. We all have to make our own decisions on this stuff, but personally, considering the convection and the movement of air that promotes, I wouldn’t want to keep it myself.

You to have ask yourself, how much enjoyment do I get from this toaster? And is it worth the risk - perceived or otherwise. I'd say the ratio of enjoyment to potential risk is less weighted on the enjoyment side with a toaster, than say a TV or radio. But each to their own

Adam
PsychMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 2:30 pm   #11
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 18,042
Default Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

Yes, probably better as a display piece IMHO.
Nickthedentist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 3:17 pm   #12
Paul_RK
Dekatron
 
Paul_RK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fakenham, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 4,333
Default Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

I've not seen elements like those before, and would agree as to the wisdom of keeping it only as a static display. Mica still looks like mica even after 85 years' service. If you want an older toaster to use there are still many around from the '30s - '70s, though the older examples at least do present their own, different, dangers if open to use by the unwary.

Paul
Paul_RK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 6:14 pm   #13
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 5,320
Default Re: Asbestos in 70s Toaster

asbestos in toasters seems more common in the US than the UK, is it a US brand?
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 7:40 pm   #14
fetteler
Octode
 
fetteler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 1,495
Default Re: Asbestos in 70's Toaster

If it looks like asbestos then it probably is asbestos and I personally would not go anywhere near it.

Do the sensible thing and dispose of it.

Steve.
__________________
Those who lack imagination cannot imagine what is lacking...
fetteler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 8:49 pm   #15
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 28,296
Default Re: Asbestos in 70's Toaster

It does look like asbestos, which would be unusual for a domestic kitchen electrical from the 70s. The dangers of asbestos were well known by then, and manufacturers had largely stopped using it in anticipation of legislation. It's probably best to just scrap it, though doing that legally will be problematic. Maybe it's best to put it in the loft with all the other junk and let somebody else worry about it.

The OP still hasn't clarified who the manufacturer is.
paulsherwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2024, 10:35 pm   #16
Colourstar
Octode
 
Colourstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 1,401
Default Re: Asbestos in 70's Toaster

This thread exactly mirrors my experience- I bought a pristine boxed mid-60s Morphy Richards toaster, but quickly went off the idea of using it when I looked at the elements which, like those in the toaster of the OP, appear to be wrapped around asbestos formers. Mine remains in its box as a display item only.

Steve
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	toast1.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	68.1 KB
ID:	297271   Click image for larger version

Name:	toast2.jpg
Views:	158
Size:	59.5 KB
ID:	297272  
Colourstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2024, 4:03 am   #17
Refugee
Dekatron
 
Refugee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Worksop, Nottinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 5,576
Default Re: Asbestos in 70's Toaster

Mica is a mined product and due to the location of the mines it can become sometimes become expensive or difficult to obtain. There was indeed a period in the 1970s when some mined products got a bit expensive.
Do a search for an after market replacement set of elements. If they are available they should be safe.
Moss grows much better on asbestos-cement roofs than it does on plain cement. If you know anyone who grows a moss garden as a hobby they may have a plant that will consume it in a safe way over a few years.
Refugee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2024, 2:56 pm   #18
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 14,167
Default Re: Asbestos in 70's Toaster

A relative having had low level asbestosis (though thankfully not Mesothelioma) from time spent working on reactor installation in the fifties, I am rather nervous about anything involving the stuff.

If it was my toaster I would WEEE it and get myself and nice new SMEG or Dualit to use.
__________________
I'm the Operator of my Pocket Calculator. -Kraftwerk.
G6Tanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2024, 6:55 pm   #19
Philips210
Nonode
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 2,637
Default Re: Asbestos in 70's Toaster

Hi.

I found this interesting page https://www.armco.org.uk/asbestos-su...s%20in%20Books illustrating some of the likely and unlikely products where asbestos could be found.

Personally, I would not risk using it, it's just not worth it. Your health comes first.
I wonder if it should be the manufacturer's responsibility for its safe disposal?

Regards,
Symon
Philips210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2024, 8:53 pm   #20
newlite4
Octode
 
newlite4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK.
Posts: 1,821
Default Re: Asbestos in 70's Toaster

As a householder with a domestic product for disposal, there would be no problem at all in disposing of this item. The situation would be different if you were a commercial user. If you are at all nervous, just contact your local authority who will provide you with any guidance needed. Councils are set up to deal with this type of waste which exists in most UK households. Most householders are nowhere near as conscientious as yourself and would just put it in the bin without a second thought.
Rest easy!
Neil
__________________
preserving the recent past, for the distant future.
newlite4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:33 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.