Contest to find Scotland's oldest television

[dave walsh]

Interesting notion DR W. Broadcast on SW? so [theoretically] might have been possible although I'd guess not a lot of K watts! Dave W

[DoctorWho]

I'm sure that I have read that 30-line transmissions could be received all over the country, and Baird also transmitted to ships and the like. I seem to remember when 30-line transmisions ended Baird is recorded as saying something like people all over the country will have sets which they cannot use, and also commented that the VHF system only had a small coverage whereas the 30-line system was national.

It would be easy for someone in Scotland with a 30-line Televisor and a standards converter to display modern day transmissions on it.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Station X]

Much as it would be nice to set the competition organisers a problem and get a free standards convertor I don't think it's possible within the rules. Only working 625 line UHF sets can be entered.

So what was the earliest dual standard set? I believe some so called dual standard sets only had a switch to change the line speed and lacked a UHF tuner.

[peter_scott]

Originally Posted by Station X

Only working 625 line UHF sets can be entered.

I don't think the rules state or even imply this.

Peter

[Station X]

Originally Posted by From the rules in post 16

Only televisions that can demonstrably receive current television broadcasts are eligible.

That seems pretty clear to me. If a 405 line set is to be DEMONSTRATED receiving current broadcasts it would need to be fitted with a standards convertor, UHF tuner etc. In other words a freeview box and an aurora.

[dave walsh]

"Only televisions that can demonstrably receive and display current television broadcasts are eligible" I was about to agree with the Doctor [as Drs are always right] and there is no mention of 625/405 or even 30 lines that I can see. However..... if current broadcasts means colour [not really clear] it would need to be 625 wouldn't it? I can see this subject running as long as The
Mousetrap. Dave W

We crossed so just seeing your last post Graham, I wonder if "demonstrably" means then able to receive current [prior to switch over] analogue colour signals without even venturing into digital reception ie is there any yet?
This is all about switchover as far as I can deduce.

[DoctorWho]

Well if it has to be colour then it would have to be 1967, unless of course someone uses a 405 NTSC colour set, but from the way hey have worded it then i woul presume if a 30-line televisor was displaying currenmt transmissions then they would have no choice but to acknowledge it. Current broadcasts can be received in colour or black and white, it all depends on the receiver and the way it displays the signal being received.

[Station X]

Current broadcasts means UHF 625 line black and white or colour. After all you can still buy a black and white TV Licence. Strictly current broadcasts would include all forms of digital TV, but equipment receiving these broadcasts wouldn't need converting.

I suspect that UK Digital roped in ILB to publicise the contest without telling him the rules. Hence his references to pre war sets in the attic.

[kalee20]

Although the publicity as announced by Iain Logie Baird does stress that ideally it would be something as old as 1936.

Perhaps the publicity and the rules are out of sync?

Assuming that a demonstrably working 1936 set (or older) is entered, it must obviously be currently running via a standards converter and UHF input. That being so, a digital set-top box with RF output, upstream of the converter, would be all that Digital UK would need to do to complete the conversion.

[Station X]

Originally Posted by Doctor

i woul presume if a 30-line televisor was displaying currenmt transmissions then they would have no choice but to acknowledge it.

Very true, but to put on such a demonstration you would need a UHF tuner and a standards convertor. You might win the prize for the oldest working set, but the only prize you'd get would be a freeview box, as you'd already have a standards convertor.

[Station X]

kalee20 beat me to it. UK Digital will get a lot of publicity from this competition for very little outlay on the prize. ie a Freeview Box with UHF RF output.

[dave walsh]

Who's going to explain all this to Digital UK? Dave

[Station X]

It seems to me that what's needed is an old VCR, which of course receives analogue TV signals, with its SCART output fed to an Aurora Standards Convertor. You could then feed the Aurora's output to any working TV set you liked so long as the Aurora could handle that standard. If the set turned out to be the oldest you'd win a free Freeview box and get lots of publicity.

Are any Scottish members of the forum intending to enter anything like this?

[peter_scott]

Originally Posted by Station X

If a 405 line set is to be DEMONSTRATED receiving current broadcasts it would need to be fitted with a standards convertor, UHF tuner etc.

There's nothing in the rules that I could see that preclude these. The key thing is whether an ancient television can be demonstrated to receive current transmissions be this via current analogue or digital signals. In the absence of any other conditions I think it would be safe to assume that the ancient television would simply display current signals in the same manner that it did when it was new.

I did email them this on the 3rd of Oct.

I have a 1937 HMV901 in working order.

see http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7nRZ85OWr-8

Although this is showing recorded material it is perfectly capable of receiving normal broadcasts
via a standards converter.

Peter Scott

As yet I've received no reply.

Peter

[dave walsh]

Good question re Scottish members Graham but what's eligible? Perhaps 1952 is a red herring after all [appropriate to the East Coast].
The rules state "Scotland' oldest working television". Not that they actually had to be in use in Scotland at the time of manufacture!
A [Scottish] lawyer might argue that any television-as long as it's been Resident in Scotland-from any era and working to any standard [whether or not appropriate signals were available at the time] should qualify. UK Digital would argue " We were only trying to make a point about he more contemporary but older type sets still in use" for the Digital Switchover". The Judge might well conclude "that's as maybe but your rules aren't clear enough".
This could then open the back door to say a 1936 ish set that someone's had running over the border for some time..taking us back to Ian L B's original radio comment. Maybe he's looking for a set approximating to the year JLB was broadcastingown in London that has since migrated.
I take your point Peter but unless your set has been a Scottish resident...
it can't enter!
Dave W

[Nickthedentist]

I bet the organisers weren't expecting this can of worms. They were probably just hoping for some old granny with a well-kept KT3 or TX9

[peter_scott]

Originally Posted by dave walsh

I take your point Peter but unless your set has been a Scottish resident...
it can't enter!
Dave W

Well my set has been a Scottish resident since 1979 so it definitely passes the over 18 test.

Peter

[Station X]

Originally Posted by Nickthedentist

I bet the organisers weren't expecting this can of worms. They were probably just hoping for some old granny with a well-kept KT3 or TX9

I suspect that the rules have been carefully drawn up by UK Digital's lawyers and a technical expert to make sure that that type of person with that type of set wins. That way they can demonstrate that digital conversion won't be a financial burden on old people. They certainly won't need to buy a new set.

There's a get out clause in the rules too:-

• The winning entry will be based on the date/year of the television’s manufacture and in compliance with these rules. Digital UK’s decision is final and no correspondence will be entered into.

[peter_scott]

Hi Graham,

I strongly suspect that you are correct. There are certainly several Baird Televisors in Scotland that are in working order and given the involvement of Iain Baird surely the best outcome would be a demonstration of one of those attached to a digibox. If I were Iain Baird I certainly wouldn't want a product of the Marconi/EMI company to win (again).

Peter

[dave walsh]

Apologies to Peter for some daft reason I had you mixed you up with the other TV expert The Doctor, who is nowhere near Edinburgh.
I must be getting over-excited !
On a lawyers opinion you could be a very strong contender!
I would give it another go at UK Digital-you are certainly a good publicity prospect for them as well. In my experience a well chosen postcard or strategic letter reaches parts e-mails don't even get close to. Your local paper is another option. They will probaly be happy to pursue it for you.

Maybe I'll contact Ian LB re all this. I was involved in the protest about knocking down JLB's last residence here in Bexhill recently and e-mailed his dad Malcolm at one point but didn't get a response from Canada [although
MLB wrote to the local paper]. Then ILB turns up in Bradford over the hill from Rammy! Dave W