The Bayonet Lightbulb

[WaveyDipole]

From the conversations so far, it seems that I am not the only one to have observed this then.

Originally Posted by Dave Moll

ES and SES bulbs may be widely available these days, but it still seems to be difficult to find sockets for them in the UK shops.

That seems to be strange but true. I did a quick search on B&Q and Wilco on "lamp holder" (searching on "lamp socket"/"[light]bulb socket"/"[light]bulb fitting" seems to return nothing) and found only bayonet type lamp holders. Table lamps always seem to have the small SES screw fitting so for what are the bulbs with the large SES screw fitting intended?

Similarly when I looked at the vintage style LED lamps I mentioned in m opening post, they were displayed in store with lightbulb number and matching vintage style "pigtail" (lamp holder with length of flex) number but could I find the matching vintage style "pigtail"? I didn't see them in store nor can I find them online on their website. I see only bayonet type holders, but no complete "pigtail"s. If they had been available, I am almost certain I would have purchased a pair of complete sets of bulbs and fittings.

[WaveyDipole]

I should also add that there seems to be no shortage of SES lamp holders on eBay, which given the lack of them anywhere else, is where individuals are likely to turn to. Anyone have any experience of these? I think we all know the risks of buying stuff that is not certified to the relevant safety standards.

[emeritus]

My late brother-in-law lived in France, and until he died 5 years ago, our regular visits usually included a visit the local Bricomarché to get stuff for his DIY projects, as well as my own, as you could get stuff there cheaply that were hard to find here ( such as 3mm studding in metre lengths, and Acetone).

The SES base was very common in France, and pendant BC, ES and SES lampholders of good quality were readily available (by LeGrand I think). The 10mm thread was generally used, and you could get screw-in strain relief fittings, flexible joints, and swan necks. BC lamps and fittings were readily available, as well as BC-ES and ES-BC adaptors. They did ES to SES adaptors, but not BC to SES. I have never seen ES or SES lampholders on sale in the UK either.

I recently got some adaptors from CPC, inexpensive and good quality. One that I got is a BC to GU10 adaptor that allows me to use a GU10 LED lamp in a desk lamp, but they did nothing other than BC lampholders.

[Red to black]

As Lucian pointed out in post #6 It is a mandatory test in the UK that where ES screw fittings are fitted that correct polarity is observed.

Edit: this is so important that it is worth repeating.

[paulsherwin]

It's certainly a nuisance to have two parallel standards in operation in the UK. It's not just a matter of the lamp connector, the shade ring diameter is also different.

I first encountered ES lamps in Britain about 30 years ago after buying an Anglepoise style desk lamp from Habitat. I remember feeling distinctly annoyed on finding an ES fitting as ES lamps carried a significant price premium back then.

[Red to black]

As so far as regards BC bayonet fittings are concerned, it is has been a number of years that the connections are not live until both pins are depressed by the insertion of the lamp.
So these are not the 'death traps' most people wrongfully perceive them to be, I can't recall off-hand when these were introduced, or if it ever became mandatory in the UK, but that is more to do with my lack of interest rather than anything else, just that we fitted what was available and presumably compliant with current standards of the time, I will need to look this up at some point.
Another poster up-thread also mentioned this.

[Red to black]

Another thought, even with more recent ES fittings (industrial at least) the "centre button" also needs to be depressed by the insertion of the lamp before the centre contact becomes live, still the polarity has to be mandatorily correct as per Lucians post earlier.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Red to black

As so far as regards BC bayonet fittings are concerned, it is has been a number of years that the connections are not live until both pins are depressed by the insertion of the lamp.

Can you offer a UK-legislative Statutory Instrument in support of this?

I feel that the whole "safety" thing about different wiring of lampholders (whether ES/SES or bayonet) is total overkill (pun very much intended!!!).

Disagree?? So show me a single instance of a Coroner-inquest-supported UK fatality in the last-decade which would have been prevented by different-wiring-on-a-lampholder.

[Dave Moll]

I certainly find adaptors easier to find than (batten-type) lamp holders.

[emeritus]

Before getting some in France, my ES lampholders were chance finds: some brass batten holders in the clearance box of an electrical shop in central London in the 1980's, and an unswitched brass holder with 10mm thread from a government surplus shop in the East End in the 1960's, the latter used in a homemade capacitor discharge flashgun for a quantity of PF60 flashbulbs I had been given. Never seen any on sale in the UK since.

ES lampholders were used in photographic floodlights and spares must have been available at one time. I was given several in the 1980's, but got rid of them a few years ago and didn't think to salvage the lampholders first.

[Red to black]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

Can you offer a UK-legislative Statutory Instrument in support of this?

I feel that the whole "safety" thing about different wiring of lampholders (whether ES/SES or bayonet) is total overkill (pun very much intended!!!).

Disagree?? So show me a single instance of a Coroner-inquest-supported UK fatality in the last-decade which would have been prevented by different-wiring-on-a-lampholder.

I cannot, as I said lack of interest precludes this we were too busy installing stuff without looking up statutory docs, no time you see, we just fitted what was either specced or available at the time, but at the same time we did notice that almost all, if not actually all, had this safety feature as obviously we were testing our work too.
I bought a set of Kewtech "light mates" (google it ) to help with testing
Ps. if you read my earlier post on this in its entirety rather than the snippet quoted ,I said as much in that post
edit 2:
Nevertheless , as Lucian posted back in post #6 it is mandatory to make sure that the live is in the centre of ES fittings, it is included in BS7671 as well, although BS7671 isn't a mandatory document in and of itself it is used as the benchmark to various other statutory docs.

[AC/HL]

Originally Posted by WaveyDipole

Are bayonet caps on lightbulbs on the way out?

Probably, here, but were they common outside the Empire/Commonwealth?
It's a global world now, multinational manufacturers and markets rule the roost. We can only guard our own homes against the lowest common denominator fittings as best we can, by being vigilant and paying what it takes to guarantee our own safety.

[emeritus]

I think France is the only place in mainland Europe where the BC base is used (in addition to ES and SES). I believe this is because France is the only mainland European county where Swan was able to successfully establish electricity undertakings. Elsewhere, Edison prevailed, and while a number of different bases were used in Europe (in Germany in particular) before 1914, the ES base eventually became standard. Swan and Edison only collaborated in the UK: elsewhere they were fierce rivals.

[arjoll]

Originally Posted by Terry_VK5TM

Same thing appears to be happening DownUnder. Looking through the the supermarkets globe shelves, most now seem to be ES rather than Bayonet.

It seems to be about 50/50 here, across the Tasman.

[peter_scott]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

So show me a single instance of a Coroner-inquest-supported UK fatality in the last-decade which would have been prevented by different-wiring-on-a-lampholder.

There are probably very few fatalities from sticking your fingers up a live bulb socket simply because the most likely path to neutral or earth is via the adjacent connector.

Peter

[cheerfulcharlie]

To aid our 'conversion' it seems that every piece of clip art in the media in the past 20 years or so for using in a item about a bulb, has a picture of an ES bulb.

[dsergeant]

Plenty of B27 led and halogens in Tesco this morning. I don't think there is any shortage yet.

[Graham G3ZVT]

Originally Posted by cheerfulcharlie

To aid our 'conversion' it seems that every piece of clip art in the media in the past 20 years or so for using in a item about a bulb, has a picture of an ES bulb.

The forum's example could be considered an indeterminate type

[Dave Moll]

It looks fairly "screwy" to me!

[Heatercathodeshort]

I have learned [from a very reliable source] that due to the World situation, all BC, SBC, ES and SES lamps are set to be withdrawn from service on the
1-4-2020 to be replaced by the MES lampholder with what is unkindly described as a 'Fat Boy' mains adaptor seen in these pre press photographs. [copyright reserved]

It's safe and good for the environment. [Well hopefully..] John.