What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? - Page 2 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

teetoon · 16th Jan 2020, 9:37 pm

Hi. I think this is the thread Dave W means :- https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=126186

David.

dave walsh · 16th Jan 2020, 9:55 pm

Yes that's it David-many thanks! Now everyone can see the deck in "question" plus Clive's great restoration

What "does the team think?" Could it be one of the missing 201's produced fro BH?

Dave

'LIVEWIRE?' · 16th Jan 2020, 10:47 pm

Could Gordon Russel have had anything to do with the cabinet styling. I know that he was responsible for some Murphy's, including one I have awaiting repair, an example of which is or was in the Gordon Russel Museum in Broadway, Worcestershire.

dave walsh · 17th Jan 2020, 1:16 am

That may well be the "case" Live Wire. I never seem to get enough time researching 30's Design and Art but here in the South, the De La Warr Pavillion is the perfect background. It's fascinating tracing out those involved in that modernistic movement of the time with Architecture, Radios and everything else.

Dave W

Bexhill

wd40addict · 17th Jan 2020, 9:42 am

Well viewed from the top the Murphy turntable looks nothing like a standard 201. However, if it was a special then at least the mechanism underneath should look the same. Lots of pictures on this site:

http://www.gramophonemuseum.com/garrard-201.html

John10b · 17th Jan 2020, 11:05 am

Accordingly to the information I have just read the Garrard 201 was direct drive using their induction motor, they say to adjust the speed move the “regulation plate” , what is this?
John

Ted Kendall · 17th Jan 2020, 11:47 am

Sounds like some sort of eddy-current brake.

llama · 17th Jan 2020, 12:15 pm

In the '70s I visited the BBC (can't remember if it was BH or not) to find out about their quick-start turntable. It was a modified 301 - I don't think they applied the mod to a 401. The machine had a subsidiary platter above the standard one. Having cued-up the record, operating a lever of some sort would lift the main turntable and with it the subsidiary platter. There were competing designs - the engineer I spoke to said "well at least ours stops!" - meaning when the subsidiary platter is at rest.

I *may* have come away with a copy of the plans but if so I've no idea where they are now. Probably cleared out in an office move. It's a long time ago.
Graham

Trigon. · 17th Jan 2020, 12:19 pm

In this image from the gramophone museum site the centrifugal 'fly-ball' governor is visible through the bottom opening:-

Cheers

dave walsh · 17th Jan 2020, 12:23 pm

Graham, is that the cueing sytem, using a piece of green felt under the disc and released for a quick start [with the turntable rotating continuously?] Or am I on the wrong track altogether

Dave

llama · 17th Jan 2020, 12:28 pm

Dave - sort of, a variation on the slip-mat idea. The subsidiary platter was an ally disk which I seem to remember had holes in for strobe use. It would rest on 3 supports and be lifted off the supports when the main turntable was raised. Yes, it would have to be running at full speed before raising it.
Graham

Ted Kendall · 17th Jan 2020, 12:28 pm

The quick start mech was applied to the 401 in the RP2/6. Shortly after this some design input from the BBC turned the Technics SP10 into an excellent broadcast turntable which needed no such modification to provide quick starting and was better on wow and rumble to boot. The Garrards disappeared in short order, to be replaced by SP10s and EMTs.

Craig Sawyers · 17th Jan 2020, 12:31 pm

Just tried this with my 401. It comes up to speed in less than 1 second, and I strongly suspect that the 301 will be similarly quick. The motor in these decks is a real brute, and the idler wheel provides a really direct coupling method with the turntable.

I'm surprised that the BBC felt the need for some sort of record loading sub-deck arrangement.

Craig

llama · 17th Jan 2020, 1:03 pm

I wonder if this dates back to sound effects being on record. Precise timing required by the "Grams" op.
Graham

Beobloke · 17th Jan 2020, 1:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

But then there is the Thorens Reference. I though that Thorens only made belt drive turntables (I have two TD150's like that). But at one stage they clearly let their design team off the leash and they came up with this 90kg wonder machine https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/in...?topic=6280.15

When a super rare Thorens Reference occasionally comes up for sale, the price is stratospheric.

The Thorens Reference is belt drive. The only direct drive decks Thorens made were the TD524 (which was basically an EMT) and the TD535.

ajgriff · 17th Jan 2020, 2:19 pm

Isn't the platter of the Thorens TD124 idler driven albeit that the drive spindle (before the idler) is belt driven?

Alan

Edward Huggins · 17th Jan 2020, 2:28 pm

The term "Transcription" or "Transcriptor" was also applied to some R2R decks e.g. the 1956/57 Collaro models.

Ted Kendall · 17th Jan 2020, 2:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

Just tried this with my 401. It comes up to speed in less than 1 second

...which is an eternity in broadcast terms. The SP10 (and the direct drive EMTs) are up to speed and stable within a quarter of a turn at 78, and much less at lower speeds. Also, the drop platter was needed to give a smoother take-up of drive than that obtained by using the on-off switch, which would certainly put a clunk through the pickup if it didn't dislodge it altogether. The solenoids removed the operator's hand from the immediate area of the pickup and allowed remote operation if needs be.

llama · 17th Jan 2020, 2:46 pm

...which reminds me of this upcoming auction, BBC Wales:

https://www.ppauctions.com/sales.php

Tasty EMT to go.
Graham

paulsherwin · 17th Jan 2020, 2:52 pm

Sadly, the only stuff that loses value faster than professional broadcast kit is networking hardware. I fully expect most of those items to go for just a few quid, and some will end up in the WEEE skip.

You're right though, the EMT and Studer decks are likely to be exceptions if they're not completely knackered. It's probable that they've seen little use, as BBC audio has been mostly digital for 20 years now.

Those BBC monitors should do well too I guess.

16th Jan 2020, 9:37 pm	#21
teetoon Heptode Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Barnstaple, N.Devon, UK. Posts: 557	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? Hi. I think this is the thread Dave W means :- https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=126186 David. Last edited by teetoon; 16th Jan 2020 at 9:43 pm.

16th Jan 2020, 9:55 pm	#22
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? Yes that's it David-many thanks! Now everyone can see the deck in "question" plus Clive's great restoration What "does the team think?" Could it be one of the missing 201's produced fro BH? Dave

16th Jan 2020, 10:47 pm	#23
'LIVEWIRE?' Rest in Peace Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton) Posts: 7,306	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? Could Gordon Russel have had anything to do with the cabinet styling. I know that he was responsible for some Murphy's, including one I have awaiting repair, an example of which is or was in the Gordon Russel Museum in Broadway, Worcestershire.

17th Jan 2020, 1:16 am	#24
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? That may well be the "case" Live Wire. I never seem to get enough time researching 30's Design and Art but here in the South, the De La Warr Pavillion is the perfect background. It's fascinating tracing out those involved in that modernistic movement of the time with Architecture, Radios and everything else. Dave W Bexhill

17th Jan 2020, 9:42 am	#25
wd40addict Octode Join Date: May 2009 Location: Stevenage, Herts. UK. Posts: 1,518	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? Well viewed from the top the Murphy turntable looks nothing like a standard 201. However, if it was a special then at least the mechanism underneath should look the same. Lots of pictures on this site: http://www.gramophonemuseum.com/garrard-201.html

17th Jan 2020, 11:05 am	#26
John10b Nonode Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Aberaeron, Ceredigion, Wales, UK. Posts: 2,887	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? Accordingly to the information I have just read the Garrard 201 was direct drive using their induction motor, they say to adjust the speed move the “regulation plate” , what is this? John

17th Jan 2020, 11:47 am	#27
Ted Kendall Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 3,675	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? Sounds like some sort of eddy-current brake.

17th Jan 2020, 12:15 pm	#28
llama Octode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Osyth, Nr Clacton, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,482	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? In the '70s I visited the BBC (can't remember if it was BH or not) to find out about their quick-start turntable. It was a modified 301 - I don't think they applied the mod to a 401. The machine had a subsidiary platter above the standard one. Having cued-up the record, operating a lever of some sort would lift the main turntable and with it the subsidiary platter. There were competing designs - the engineer I spoke to said "well at least ours stops!" - meaning when the subsidiary platter is at rest. I may have come away with a copy of the plans but if so I've no idea where they are now. Probably cleared out in an office move. It's a long time ago. Graham __________________ Half my stuff is junk - trouble is, I don't know which half!

17th Jan 2020, 12:19 pm	#29
Trigon. Hexode Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Buckinghamshire, UK. Posts: 387	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? In this image from the gramophone museum site the centrifugal 'fly-ball' governor is visible through the bottom opening:- Cheers Attached Thumbnails

17th Jan 2020, 12:23 pm	#30
dave walsh Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex. Posts: 5,817	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? Graham, is that the cueing sytem, using a piece of green felt under the disc and released for a quick start [with the turntable rotating continuously?] Or am I on the wrong track altogether Dave

17th Jan 2020, 12:28 pm	#31
llama Octode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Osyth, Nr Clacton, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,482	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? Dave - sort of, a variation on the slip-mat idea. The subsidiary platter was an ally disk which I seem to remember had holes in for strobe use. It would rest on 3 supports and be lifted off the supports when the main turntable was raised. Yes, it would have to be running at full speed before raising it. Graham __________________ Half my stuff is junk - trouble is, I don't know which half!

17th Jan 2020, 12:31 pm	#33
Craig Sawyers Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 4,993	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? Just tried this with my 401. It comes up to speed in less than 1 second, and I strongly suspect that the 301 will be similarly quick. The motor in these decks is a real brute, and the idler wheel provides a really direct coupling method with the turntable. I'm surprised that the BBC felt the need for some sort of record loading sub-deck arrangement. Craig

17th Jan 2020, 1:03 pm	#34
llama Octode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Osyth, Nr Clacton, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,482	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? I wonder if this dates back to sound effects being on record. Precise timing required by the "Grams" op. Graham __________________ Half my stuff is junk - trouble is, I don't know which half!

17th Jan 2020, 2:19 pm	#36
ajgriff Nonode Join Date: May 2004 Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 2,587	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? Isn't the platter of the Thorens TD124 idler driven albeit that the drive spindle (before the idler) is belt driven? Alan

17th Jan 2020, 2:28 pm	#37
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,338	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? The term "Transcription" or "Transcriptor" was also applied to some R2R decks e.g. the 1956/57 Collaro models. __________________ Edward.

17th Jan 2020, 2:46 pm	#39
llama Octode Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Osyth, Nr Clacton, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,482	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? ...which reminds me of this upcoming auction, BBC Wales: https://www.ppauctions.com/sales.php Tasty EMT to go. Graham __________________ Half my stuff is junk - trouble is, I don't know which half!

17th Jan 2020, 2:52 pm	#40
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,970	Re: What exactly is meant by a 'Transcription' Turntable? Sadly, the only stuff that loses value faster than professional broadcast kit is networking hardware. I fully expect most of those items to go for just a few quid, and some will end up in the WEEE skip. You're right though, the EMT and Studer decks are likely to be exceptions if they're not completely knackered. It's probable that they've seen little use, as BBC audio has been mostly digital for 20 years now. Those BBC monitors should do well too I guess.