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Old 7th Feb 2019, 8:25 pm   #21
SiriusHardware
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Default Re: Aspect ratio

If you already have a composite / AV out lead for your 360, all you need to connect that directly to the TV is one of these:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0014HB4YO

Available from other suppliers, that was the first one I found.

Converting from HDMI to SCART is certainly a level of complication you don't need but either way, you are 'downscaling' to SD by not directly using either the HDMI or VGA output capability of the 360 so you won't get very good picture quality.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 8:49 pm   #22
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Default Re: Aspect ratio

I have the lead, which I use for a very complicated method of using my audio equipment speakers for my PC which should work.

Would using this improve picture quality? Even if just slightly?

Thanks for your help
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 9:54 pm   #23
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Originally Posted by InsertNameHere View Post

Would using this improve picture quality? Even if just slightly?
Just to be clear, this is the sort of Xbox 360 'AV' lead I am referring to. Again, just the first example I found. You would plug this into the type of adaptor I linked to a few posts ago.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Replaceme...K/232249027830

Would it improve the picture quality? I don't know whether your HDMI to SCART converter is producing a SCART RGB or SCART composite signal, but it will be doing a lot of processing / crunching to generate a low resolution signal from the HDMI source and it might be doing that really well, or it might be doing that really badly. Whereas, with the type of lead linked to above the Xbox will natively generate a PAL composite video signal. As I said, this is the least desirable of all the possible video connection methods for a 360, but if that's all your TV supports..

Unfortunately, given the wide range of video output types supported by the Xbox 360, the one glaring omission seems to be standard-definition RGB. Instead, they went for 'Component' as the high quality standard connection, probably because this was more widely used in the 360's USA home market and Australia - RGB via SCART seems to have been very much a European thing.

My first 360 was a first-generation 'Grey Cooling Tower' which did not have HDMI out, so I used that for quite a few years with a 'VGA' video output lead and a large CRT VGA monitor - the image quality that way was far better, much higher resolution than any SD TV display and offered a wide range of pixel high / pixel wide resolutions for different monitors and aspect ratios.

Edit: Sorry, I missed the fact that although you have a 360 you are currently using an Xbox One. I'm not so sure about the range of outputs available on that, and the lead I linked to above is for the 360.

Last edited by SiriusHardware; 7th Feb 2019 at 10:05 pm.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 10:04 pm   #24
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Default Re: Aspect ratio

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Now you know why all those crt sets end up at the recycling depot ! Of course, some
very late crt sets had a 14;9 or 16:9 tube e.g Sony, Philips, B&O
From the early 1990's onwards, so even 16:9 sets are already becoming vintage (prototypes were made as early as the 1950's). Many (or at least some) 4:3 sets had a button on the remote to adjust vertical deflection size for anamorphic 16:9 signals, so you could view an undistorted 16:9 image with letterbox bars.

Of course, to compensate for overscan or geometric distortion, the TS could adjust his V-size and H-size presets.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 10:12 pm   #25
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I can connect using a composite output, but the VCR I have doesn't have composite in, only SCART and Aerial in and RF out.
Hi Aaron,
You can feed composite video into a scart socket, you just need the right connectors. You can get scart plugs with three RCA sockets mounted on them. There is one (yellow) for composite video, and a red & a white one for audio.

The picture on the Hitachi looks really good- can you post some pictures of it in your other thread just to round it off? Select some images that show it off to it's best advantage! It will be great to see it working properly!

All the best
Nick
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 11:12 pm   #26
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Quote:
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I can connect using a composite output, but the VCR I have doesn't have composite in, only SCART and Aerial in and RF out.
Hi Aaron,
You can feed composite video into a scart socket, you just need the right connectors. You can get scart plugs with three RCA sockets mounted on them. There is one (yellow) for composite video, and a red & a white one for audio.

The picture on the Hitachi looks really good- can you post some pictures of it in your other thread just to round it off? Select some images that show it off to it's best advantage! It will be great to see it working properly!

All the best
Nick
I think my nan (who i actually got the VCR from) has some of those, which i can ask for, they’re just lying in a drawer, unused, i can ask if i can have one.

I’ll post some photos now!

Thanks
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:21 am   #27
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Default Re: Aspect ratio

Predictably, this has got very complex! So the VCR in the daisy chain [post 11] is actually there to facilitate experimenting with various X Box configurations Or is that wrong? Are you recording to tape? I like a good quality picture but sometimes content is more important and I can live with side bars or a reduced resolution. It's very personal. Some people here say its impossible to watch VHS material on say, a 50" FS but I do-some times!

Dave

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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:37 am   #28
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Originally Posted by dave walsh View Post
Predictably, this has got very complex! So the VCR in the daisy chain [post 11] is actually there to facilitate experimenting with various X Box configurations Or is that wrong? Are you recording to tape? I like a good quality picture but sometimes content is more important and I can live with side bars or a reduced resolution. It's very personal. Some people here say its impossible to watch VHS material on say, a 50" FS but I do-some times!

Dave
Hi,

Yes it has! The VCR is there for use of a Modulator, and will most likely be a permanent modulator, or long term at least. I'm not recording to tape, but I do play tapes with a different VCR, which for some odd reason, will not tune into my TV, so I have to hook the tape playing VCR to the modulator VCR. (The modulator VCR won't play tapes, even after a clean and a service)

If I use either xbox, usually xbox one, I skip the TP VCR and go to the Modulator VCR.

I can live with borders, but I was just wondering if there was a way to fill the whole screen, as some youtube videos fill the whole screen in either 4:3 or 16:9 (Then I lose edges)

Reduced resolution, not too much of an issue either, but can be annoying at times.

I've never played a VHS on a large screen TV, but i'd imagine the larger, HD TVs and the like show all the VHS' imperfections

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Old 8th Feb 2019, 1:38 am   #29
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Default Re: Aspect ratio

I wouldn't expect there to be a wide range of resolutions available on the Xbox One, since this was released well into the era of HD and LCD displays. The Xbox 360 was just about in the era where there were still CRT displays in abundance, so you might have more luck with that.

I don't think anyone expected the Xbox One to ever be connected to a CRT television. I don't know anything about consoles but I would be surprised if it offered any interlaced video options or 4:3 aspect ratio.

On the other hand if you're into classic gaming the likes of the Sega Megadrive were made to connect directly to the aerial socket and will look better on a CRT. VHS should also look better with the lower resolution and no digital processing. Older DVD players should have composite output and options to set the aspect ratio. Older Sky Digital boxes had these options as well.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 2:05 am   #30
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I, relatively recently, asked why mobile phone footage, which is a vertical strip and often relates to very serious matters, couldn't be presented as 16:9 for example? There were lots of negative answers, non of which I understood. Some people didn't seem to even grasp the question. I posted recently that it's now been confirmed that you can look round the corner in a photo [as per the fictional Blade Runner film ] using now established scientific techniques. Anything should be, or probably is possible now!

Yes you do get imperfections on a 50" screen but if it's something you've archived for decades you don't care. It's wonderful to view it warts and all. This is what pedantic, purist, perfectionists can't ever grasp. There is a principle in Social Work [Family Therapy] that applies to technical advances as well. It's "Content Not Process". This means don't get bogged down in detail. Look at the message not the medium to invert Professor Marshall McLuhan's famous observation.

Dave

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Old 8th Feb 2019, 2:28 am   #31
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Originally Posted by Clydeuk View Post
I wouldn't expect there to be a wide range of resolutions available on the Xbox One, since this was released well into the era of HD and LCD displays. The Xbox 360 was just about in the era where there were still CRT displays in abundance, so you might have more luck with that.

I don't think anyone expected the Xbox One to ever be connected to a CRT television. I don't know anything about consoles but I would be surprised if it offered any interlaced video options or 4:3 aspect ratio.

On the other hand if you're into classic gaming the likes of the Sega Megadrive were made to connect directly to the aerial socket and will look better on a CRT. VHS should also look better with the lower resolution and no digital processing. Older DVD players should have composite output and options to set the aspect ratio. Older Sky Digital boxes had these options as well.
That makes a lot of sense, i never really thought of the release dates etc. The xbox one just has its own “test cards” for you to adjust the television itself, other than the xbox. Of course, my 70s set cannot do this.

The xbox 360 isnt connected to the internet as it costs money to go online, the xbox one is connected (More point of connecting the newer console to the Wifi instead of an older barely used console)

I do have an Atari 2600 which plugs right into the back of the TV, im not much of a gamer otherwise. I also prefer VHS on the 70s set. I did once play a VHS on a FS, 1080p and it didn’t look right, it was easily watchable, but just seemed odd.
(Even a worker in Currys said that somethings look better on CRTs than on the new 8k TVs)

Did virgin media boxes have composite output with AR optolns too, as we’re with Virgin Media

Thanks
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:45 pm   #32
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I, relatively recently, asked why mobile phone footage, which is a vertical strip and often relates to very serious matters, couldn't be presented as 16:9 for example?
I think we tried to explain to you at the time that (Widescreen) TV displays have a fixed orientation, their picture is wider than it is tall. Therefore, anyone taking footage which they eventually intend to be displayed on a TV or computer monitor should only -ever- capture the video in 'landscape' mode, ie, with the phone turned on its side. Portrait mode footage is good for viewing on only one thing - another phone or tablet, since unlike a TV the phone / tablet can easily be turned upright or sideways to match the orientation of the source material.

We didn't get this problem with footage produced by conventional video cameras because they, like the TVs their footage was intended to be shown on, had a fixed orientation, so there was only one sensible way up to hold the camera. This produced footage which suited most TV displays.

Just about the only feasible way to display phone 'portrait' mode video over the whole of a 'landscape' TV display while still preserving its aspect ratio is to turn the footage on its side. You don't really want to have to turn your TV onto one end every time the news shows a few seconds of blurry phone footage which was inadvisedly shot in portrait mode?
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 3:22 pm   #33
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Default Re: Aspect ratio

At least if you or I happened to witness a world changing event, and filmed it along with a load of VVS merchants**, it is our footage that will make the 6 O'Clock news $$$$$

** VVS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt9zSfinwFA
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 5:03 pm   #34
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Default Re: Aspect ratio

Good point Rambo. Going back to the perfectionist theme, I recall the days when BBC News would be offered 8mm or better film footage of major incidents but refused to use it. The reason that emerged seemed to be that it didn't match their specific professional quality standard. To my recollection, it was only when CH4 began using the new generation of Sony Semi Pro and Lightweight Video [3 chip?] Video Cameras, for Documentary or News coverage that attitudes changed. "Content not process" as I said.

Thanks Sirius I think I'm a bit better "orientated" now. From time to time there are certain things I just don't get somehow! I remember that Brian Eno once had an artwork [a video of a New York Skyscraper] displayed by standing the WS Monitor on it's end!

My Blade Runner comment was meant to suggest that what can't be done [now] may [increasingly] be possible in the future!

Dave W

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Old 8th Feb 2019, 7:03 pm   #35
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I seem to remember that the video screens in Kubrick's film "2001" " were portrait mode!

I have a vague recollection that ITV tried using Super-8 for filming speedway footage in the mid-1960's.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 7:29 pm   #36
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I suppose what's at the root of Dave's question is: What if you could somehow 'reconstruct' the scene which is outside the left and right boundaries of a portrait mode video.

I would suggest that it would be simpler just to equip the phone with sensor / lens coverage much wider than the field of view seen on the vertically oriented screen - the user would still hold the phone whichever way up they wanted to and compose the shot on what they see, but if played back on a landscape player the 'wider' recorded material would be seen.

The main argument against this is the amount of storage which would be wasted recording the unseen 'side' information when it might never be seen.

A better, and more practical idea: Automatically disable video recording on any mobile phone which is oriented vertically. ...Problem solved.

Rambo, I had to google VVS. It means different things in different contexts but I'm sure this is the one you had in mind.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...deo%20syndrome

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Old 8th Feb 2019, 8:55 pm   #37
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Default Re: Aspect ratio

I've got a Virgin Media Tivo box (not the newest one) but can't remember what connectors are on the back and it's not easy to get to it to check. The older Virgin boxes had SCART sockets. If your box has a SCART then it is likely to output composite video on pin 19. You'd still need a modulator to connect to your TV though.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 12:39 am   #38
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Default Re: Aspect ratio

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave walsh View Post
Good point Rambo. Going back to the perfectionist theme, I recall the days when BBC News would be offered 8mm or better film footage of major incidents but refused to use it. The reason that emerged seemed to be that it didn't match their specific professional quality standard. To my recollection, it was only when CH4 began using the new generation of Sony Semi Pro and Lightweight Video [3 chip?] Video Cameras, for Documentary or News coverage that attitudes changed. "Content not process" as I said.

Thanks Sirius I think I'm a bit better "orientated" now. From time to time there are certain things I just don't get somehow! I remember that Brian Eno once had an artwork [a video of a New York Skyscraper] displayed by standing the WS Monitor on it's end!

My Blade Runner comment was meant to suggest that what can't be done [now] may [increasingly] be possible in the future!

Dave W
The late David Frost would have agreed with you about content/process. I can remember him complaining about not being able to show poor quality footage in the mid '60s
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 1:39 am   #39
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Thanks very much Graham. You're comment is like Gold Dust! Not many people seem to confirm, let alone recall, what I'm on about

Dave
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 4:28 pm   #40
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Originally Posted by Clydeuk View Post
I've got a Virgin Media Tivo box (not the newest one) but can't remember what connectors are on the back and it's not easy to get to it to check. The older Virgin boxes had SCART sockets. If your box has a SCART then it is likely to output composite video on pin 19. You'd still need a modulator to connect to your TV though.
I mean, i can use a relatively new TiVo box as i have a HDMI to SCART adaptor, but this degreades the picture quality quite a bit. I’ll see if i can get a TiVo box, but i dont know if we’re on the right TiVo package and installation could be costly. For now im using a Freeview box with an indoor aerial.

Thanks
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